What regulator brands can I get my own parts for?

[divad]

That's one of the plusses I was thinking of. I've found the same thing for car or boat parts. If you're off in the sticks, even if you can't repair something yourself you can often find someone who can -- as long as you have the parts.

Clever girl. Re the car, you should at the very least have a set of belts. The right sizes can be hard to immposible to find. Besides, when you need them, you need them now, where the car is. Not somewhere in some store out there in the night you have no local knowledge of.

 

[Peter_C]

Eric, I just talked to Adeline and she said if you wanted to borrow her HOG regs to try you can. They are DIN, setup with a gauge on the left hip 24", bungee backup 24", and a 5' primary hose. We could either drop them off or pick them up Saturday at your house.

I dove them a couple of times and like them. Heavier 2nd stages than my S600's though. I do get my SP regs serviced every year. Bruce at Aquarius does them now after the LDS screwed them up, and I had to fix them (Then again I have fixed a lot of their rental regs at the dive sites). I dive enough, and get enough crap in them, it is worth tearing them down every year (Sometimes they get taken apart cleaned up and lubed mid year). Adeline's will only get serviced when needed, probably not yearly. One of the reasons I originally went with Scubapro was because parts and authorized centers are pretty much everywhere. I like my Scubapro regs and the parts program works fine for me *shrug*

The Zeagles I got for Susie off ebay were rebranded Apeks and the parts kits were readily available. Zeagle now specs their own regs and they do seem to come highly regarded.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Eric, I just talked to Adeline and she said if you wanted to borrow her HOG regs to try you can. They are DIN, setup with a gauge on the left hip 24", bungee backup 24", and a 5' primary hose. We could either drop them off or pick them up Saturday at your house.

I dove them a couple of times and like them. Heavier 2nd stages than my S600's though. I do get my SP regs serviced every year. Bruce at Aquarius does them now after the LDS screwed them up, and I had to fix them (Then again I have fixed a lot of their rental regs at the dive sites). I dive enough, and get enough crap in them, it is worth tearing them down every year (Sometimes they get taken apart cleaned up and lubed mid year). Adeline's will only get serviced when needed, probably not yearly. One of the reasons I originally went with Scubapro was because parts and authorized centers are pretty much everywhere. I like my Scubapro regs and the parts program works fine for me *shrug*

The Zeagles I got for Susie off ebay were rebranded Apeks and the parts kits were readily available. Zeagle now specs their own regs and they do seem to come highly regarded.

Cool.
I don't really care how their set up, all I need to do is breath off it and see how I like it. Whatever the config I'll make it work.
I can pull the insert out of my 100 or 120 and hook it up.
Thanks for the great offer Pete, see you on the 22nd.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I can go down to my corner hardware store and get O-rings. They have tray after tray of every size and thickness available. I wonder though about rubber quality, compound differences and density. Are there special ones for use in regulators?
I don't run high mixtures of O2 I just use air so that's a non issue if some of you were thinking viton.

Even if you don't use higher mixtures of O2, I'd recommend going with o-rings made of either EPDM or viton...mainly because EPDM and viton o-rings have a much longer shelf-life than Buna-N. All three types can be sourced online from various suppliers.

In terms of o-ring durometer, Apeks uses 80 durometer EPDM for all of its first and second stage kits. I've been using 70 durometer EPDM in my second stages (since I haven't found a convenient online source that carries 80 duro).

If you're planning on sourcing third-party o-rings for reg overhauls, then you'll probably also want to think about finding generic substitutes for LP seats. There's a great SB thread on which Trident LP seats work in various second stages. I found it very interesting that the Trident A148 seat works well in several barrel poppet second stage designs: Scubapro G250V/S600, Apeks, and HOG. Not surprisingly, I have also heard that the HOG 2nd stage kits work well for Apeks regs.

I haven't experimented at all with sourcing third-party first stage rebuild parts for my Apeks reg yet, since I'm still working through official kits that I own.

 

[Akimbo]

I am not sure free parts matter much, unless you change them for no good reason. O-rings are available from industrial suppliers and are so cheap that you might as well change them. Most of the other parts rarely need to be changed.

I can go down to my corner hardware store and get O-rings. They have tray after tray of every size and thickness available. I wonder though about rubber quality, compound differences and density. Are there special ones for use in regulators?
I don't run high mixtures of O2 I just use air so that's a non issue if some of you were thinking viton.

The advantage of an industrial supplier is you can match material and durometer. Although the vast majority of O-rings are 70 durometer Buna-N, a few dynamic seals might be different for optimum life and performance. They also tend to keep them more protected from dirt and UV than a hardware store. They give you the option to shift to Viton for high O2 applications, EPDM, or Nitrile if that is preferred by the regulator manufacturer. Naturally, once you go to the trouble buy several sets and store them in a plastic bag in the dark.

 

[halocline]

We are the in process of converting our entire stable of regulators over to HOG, for just this reason.

I think, from what I have read, the issue with o-rings is durometer readings. You have to know for which applications you need hard ones, and for which, soft ones. It's not just the size.

Sure, but it's very easy to order the specific compound and durometer that you want if you get o-rings from one of the main suppliers, like oringsusa.com or mcmaster-carr. It's also very forgiving in terms of durometer. Basically, the only SP application that really specifies a higher durometer o-ring is the HP piston o-ring, and the reg will work fine with a 70 duro o-ring even in that position. It probably won't last as long as a 90 duro, and there would be more IP rise (not creep) at high pressures.

I have a closet full of older SP regs and I have not bought an actual repair kit in a couple of years. There is some savings to be had by buying the kits (usually on ebay for a fairly high price) and doing the work yourself, but the big savings comes from not paying the insane markup on kits and sticking with regs that can be serviced with easily available o-rings and relatively inexpensive seats.

Eric, if you already own SP regs, you're very unlikely to recoup your money if you buy all new regs just to get slightly less expensive kits. You'd do much better (financially) by simply investing the time to locate a source of seats, maybe a few kits, and buy a stock of o-rings. There is also some pretty good support here on SB. Depending on the models you have, couv has some nifty annotated schematics that list all the o-rings by standard size, awap has made some good quality seats, etc..

Another way to save some money would be to get some used SP regs of particular models; specifically MK5 or MK10 and a few metal case 109 2nds. These are extremely inexpensive to service; far less than purchasing HOG or any other company's genuine rebuild kit. A 109 needs 2 o-rings and simple EDPM seat; it would be easy to purchase a lifetime supply for $10. I think awap simply punched the seats out of a sheet of EPDM; I suspect his cost was less than a nickel/seat.

The first stages are a little more involved because you need to find seats, but since every MK5/10 kit contains three seats, virtually every SP dealer has a drawer full of extras. It's just not that hard to get them for very little cost, and the rest of the reg is serviced with standard size o-rings.

I understand your frustration with SP's (and others..) stupid policy that restricts parts; imagine if an auto maker decided to follow suit and refused to sell brake pads due to 'liability'. But, the easiest solution is to simply sidestep the policy and find what you need through alternate means.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Sure, but it's very easy to order the specific compound and durometer that you want if you get o-rings from one of the main suppliers, like oringsusa.com or mcmaster-carr. It's also very forgiving in terms of durometer. Basically, the only SP application that really specifies a higher durometer o-ring is the HP piston o-ring, and the reg will work fine with a 70 duro o-ring even in that position. It probably won't last as long as a 90 duro, and there would be more IP rise (not creep) at high pressures.

I have a closet full of older SP regs and I have not bought an actual repair kit in a couple of years. There is some savings to be had by buying the kits (usually on ebay for a fairly high price) and doing the work yourself, but the big savings comes from not paying the insane markup on kits and sticking with regs that can be serviced with easily available o-rings and relatively inexpensive seats.

Eric, if you already own SP regs, you're very unlikely to recoup your money if you buy all new regs just to get slightly less expensive kits. You'd do much better (financially) by simply investing the time to locate a source of seats, maybe a few kits, and buy a stock of o-rings. There is also some pretty good support here on SB. Depending on the models you have, couv has some nifty annotated schematics that list all the o-rings by standard size, awap has made some good quality seats, etc..

Another way to save some money would be to get some used SP regs of particular models; specifically MK5 or MK10 and a few metal case 109 2nds. These are extremely inexpensive to service; far less than purchasing HOG or any other company's genuine rebuild kit. A 109 needs 2 o-rings and simple EDPM seat; it would be easy to purchase a lifetime supply for $10. I think awap simply punched the seats out of a sheet of EPDM; I suspect his cost was less than a nickel/seat.

The first stages are a little more involved because you need to find seats, but since every MK5/10 kit contains three seats, virtually every SP dealer has a drawer full of extras. It's just not that hard to get them for very little cost, and the rest of the reg is serviced with standard size o-rings.

I understand your frustration with SP's (and others..) stupid policy that restricts parts; imagine if an auto maker decided to follow suit and refused to sell brake pads due to 'liability'. But, the easiest solution is to simply sidestep the policy and find what you need through alternate means.

I have a MK2/R190 that I bought in 2004, and a MK20/G200B that I bought in 1998.
I would like to keep using the regs because there's nothing wrong with them and they have always worked well, I am just tired of the game and it looks like SP has just cranked it up a notch.

Thanks for all of your responses, this thread has given me a lot of insight and taken much of the mystery out of reg parts and O-rings.
Looks like I have some homework to do now.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Re the car, you should at the very least have a set of belts. The right sizes can be hard to immposible to find.

Funny you should mention belts. A couple of dive trips ago, I wanted to try spacing the tank out from my back just a wee bit more, just to see how it would compare. Of course at home I would have had plenty of scraps of this or that to use; but in the Keys on holiday.... nooo. I was looking around in the back of my car, mentally scratching my head, when my gaze landed on a set of spare belts.... Yep, the alternator belt was cut up and pressed into service (didn't work half bad, considering)

(I had *two* spare sets so I still had spares on the way home.)

 

[halocline]

I have a MK2/R190 that I bought in 2004, and a MK20/G200B that I bought in 1998.
I would like to keep using the regs because there's nothing wrong with them and they have always worked well, I am just tired of the game and it looks like SP has just cranked it up a notch.

Thanks for all of your responses, this thread has given me a lot of insight and taken much of the mystery out of reg parts and O-rings.
Looks like I have some homework to do now.

The MK2/R190 can be serviced with less than a dollar's worth of o-rings, a very simple generic hp seat (that only needs to be replaced maybe every 200 dives) and one of awap's LP seats. I wonder how many he'd trade you for a freedom plate? Probably several lifetimes' supply.

The G200B uses a common "rivet" seat that trident sells, or SP sells separately, the cost is under $5 per seat even if you're getting shafted at the LDS. Other than that it's just o-rings...the small balance chamber o-rings are a funny size, but Couv bought 100 (I think) and I have several extras if he can't spare any.

The MK20 is a bit trickier because it's a SP-specific seat and it has those bushings. Personally I am confident that you could re-use the bushings for several rebuilds as all they do is keep the HP o-ring in place; they don't actually seal anything. If you have the current generation piston, you'll find that the HP seat will last several seasons, and I suspect could be purchased separately. If not, you'll have to buy a kit, but probably not more often than every 3 years if you use the MK20 regularly, longer if you don't. I think I've had the same kit in my MK15 for at least 4 years and have no plans to rebuild in the near future, but I don't use that reg very often at all.

Still, I'd consider getting a MK5/109. It fits your interest in vintage gear, and you'll find the 109 to be a great breather and overall very high-class reg. The majority of my single tank diving is done with a MK5 and a freedom plate!

 

[John_B]

Aren't the H regulator parts kits compatible with your SP regulators?