What makes a master diver?

[Thalassamania]

Correct. It's easy for me to keep forgetting about NAUI's program because it is non-existant in large sections of the country. When I specifically look at Central Indiana, NAUI is simply a non-player. Just a fact. I'd have to go to Cincinnati to find an active NAUI shop that actually runs a Master Diver Course at least once or twice a year.

Yes ... I understand that. Just pointing out the flip side, usually everyone conmplains that PADI is the sole target of complaints.

Despite it all, I try to remember what LA County does.

 

[johnny_bravo]

Ahem ... seeing a non-NAUI Master Diver Card.

Why exactly is this? I say it not to stir the pot but I can't find a meaningful outline of the NAUI MD other than 8 open water dives + specialties + some physics exams.

Cheers.

-J.-

 

[Thalassamania]

Why exactly is this? I say it not to stir the pot but I can't find a meaningful outline of the NAUI MD other than 8 open water dives + specialties + some physics exams.

Cheers.

-J.-

Yes, NAUI's web site sucks and is very unclear. The learing objectives for the NAUI Master Diver course are exactly the same as the learning objectives for the NAUI Instructor Course, with the exception of those items that relate to teaching theory and practice and knowledge of NAUI. So, as I've noted before, a NAUI Master Diver should be as skilled and capable a diver as a NAUI Instructor.

I suspect they toned it down on the web site so as to not be quite so "scary," a bad sign that they'll gut the program in the near future to make it "competitive." Wouldn't be the first time that happened.

 

[Paco II]

From what I have read, one can be Naui Master Diver with only 20 dives experience (12+8). Again, not trying to flame or knock Naui, but it seems that Naui's Master Diver doesn't mean much more than any of the other agency's master diver cards, in terms of real 'master' diving experience.

 

[Thalassamania]

From what I have read, one can be Naui Master Diver with only 20 dives experience (12+8). Again, not trying to flame or knock Naui, but it seems that Naui's Master Diver doesn't mean much more than any of the other agency's master diver cards, in terms of real 'master' diving experience.

I frankly don't remember what the minimum dives is. The idea is that if you can meet the learing objectives noted above then you can meet them, twenty, or fifty or a hundered dives doesn't really measure anything, that's what a log book is for.

 

[Paco II]

But just being able to meet learning objectives does not then mean they are 'master' of those skills, especially if they have only done the minimum number of dives (20). Again, this is not a knock of Naui. For sure, the course requirements for Naui Master Diver is more intensive than the others. Just saying that a Master Diver card from any of the agency's does not guarantee one is a master diver.

I frankly don't remember what the minimum dives is. The idea is that if you can meet the learing objectives noted above then you can meet them, twenty, or fifty or a hundered dives doesn't really measure anything, that's what a log book is for.

 

[MikeFerrara]

When I travel, or am diving for fun off of a boat that does not know I'm a DM, I don't show my DM card. I just show my AOW. If it's a wreck dive they sometimes will ask for wreck certification. The fewer carsd I have to carry the better.

We've had this discussion lots of time on other threads but, IMO, not providing complete information to a boat crew can be a bad practice. The crew needs to plan their resources and make decisions that depend on evaluating the divers on board based on the information they have.

I suppose, if they are stupid enough to just ask for "a card" then all you have to do is show them "a card"...any card. But, for all but the most basic of dives (like a pool maybe) I'd be concerned about diving with a cew who is that clueless.

Assuming that when they ask for a card they are really asking what they should be asking, I try to provide the information that they should be asking for.
Aside from that, cards are for gaining access so when I travel, I carry the cards that will get me the most access and I wouldn't even know where to look for my AOW or rescue card.

I know that some pros and experience divers worry about being put to work but I'm not likely to accept any offers of employment on my vacation time unless the money is really great. Since I've never seen "really great" money offered in the recreational dive industry, I don't worry too much about that and I don't dive with anybody that I don't want to dive with.

 

[RowingMunkeyCU]

With all this talk seeming to be going nowhere... I'd like to bring it back to the military dive training.

It is fairly obvious that the military (well, at least the Navy) provides the best training available when it comes to diving. I think it would be awesome if the Navy were to provide the same exact training (no 'dumbing it down', along with the same PT admission reqs) to people outside of the military.

They could charge for the program just like any other cert agency (albeit more expensive, but not unreasonably so) and really start growing a more positive image for the military while advancing the knowledge/skill of people who are seriously into the sport. They could also make sure that people know that certification is not guaranteed just because you signed up; but at the same time, allowing you to repeat the training (for free) as many times as it takes you to get certified (or, more likely, to the point at which you can't take the punishment anymore).

I know there are probably some who would say "just join the navy", but in reality, that just isn't going to happen for the vast majority of people. For someone like myself, I have no trust in the government that is running the country to make wise decisions in regards to my life, so I won't sign up. Nor is there a guarantee that I'll get to pursue a path that I want if I sign up. (That is not to say however that I don't support the troops, as they probably have more courage than I ever will. I also have a cousin, and several friends actively serving in the armed forces.)

But anyway, NAVY diving school available to the general public would be awesome.

 

[GA Under Water]

I frankly don't remember what the minimum dives is. The idea is that if you can meet the learing objectives noted above then you can meet them, twenty, or fifty or a hundered dives doesn't really measure anything, that's what a log book is for.

so you re saying the PADI MSD requires no knowledge, only 50 dives? I see nothing special about NAUI MSD other than a S&R dive, Deep Dive, Nav dive, Low vis or Night dive and a rescue Scenario. Sounds like PADI Advanced Open water to me.

Quote NAUI

"If you are 15 years old and have a NAUI Advanced Scuba Diver certification or its equivalent, you may be ready for the Master Scuba Diver class. Ready, set, learn!"

YEAH! THAT is a Master Scuba Diver

 

[fisheyeview]

We've had this discussion lots of time on other threads but, IMO, not providing complete information to a boat crew can be a bad practice. The crew needs to plan their resources and make decisions that depend on evaluating the divers on board based on the information they have.

I suppose, if they are stupid enough to just ask for "a card" then all you have to do is show them "a card"...any card. But, for all but the most basic of dives (like a pool maybe) I'd be concerned about diving with a cew who is that clueless.

Assuming that when they ask for a card they are really asking what they should be asking, I try to provide the information that they should be asking for.
Aside from that, cards are for gaining access so when I travel, I carry the cards that will get me the most access and I wouldn't even know where to look for my AOW or rescue card.

I know that some pros and experience divers worry about being put to work but I'm not likely to accept any offers of employment on my vacation time unless the money is really great. Since I've never seen "really great" money offered in the recreational dive industry, I don't worry too much about that and I don't dive with anybody that I don't want to dive with.

I am a photographer, so when I dive for fun I am shooting pictures. I have had the unfortunate experience of a boat crew pointing me out to a newbie diver (without my knowing they did so) to follow around on a dive. It was our first time on the boat, and I made the mistake of showing my DM card.

The newbie expressed her concern about being new, and not nowing the area. I later learned that the crew pointed me out to her and told her that I was a Divemaster, and that she should follow me around. My wife and I (she is also a photographer) spent most of the dive trying to lose this diver who was following us around. It is the one and only time that we used that boat. I also told the captain what his crew had done and demanded a fee for a guided dive. I was not expecting to get any money, I just wanted to make my point.