What makes a master diver?

[IXΘYΣ]

Unless I hired you to lead me in a dive and told you I need supervision, you have NO DM's duty of care to me. Stay away.

There is no way for a dive professional to know you have a "DNR" letter on file... sorry... if you need care, you'll get it, even if I just happen on the scene. It's just what I do. Hope that doesn't mean we can't be friends.

 

[Tigerman]

That has got to be the all-time stupidest comment I have ever read on ScubaBoard.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Either you didnt understand the context which that statement was made in or you didnt WANT to understand. I think the latter..
The fact of the matter is that if you DO chase someone off or deliberately lose them, you HAVE been directly or indirectly involved in their death if thats the outcome of their dive. Unless you have no respect for life and death, you would care about your involvment. And from the incidents forums here, most people on the board seems to have some respect..

Sideband, Ana, Walter and whoever dont think a DM is paid to take care of you unless you have specifically said otherwise.. Why the hell do you PAY to go on a dive boat? You think the fuel cost 500 dollars for a two-tank dive?
The moment you set foot on a boat you paid to be on, you have already paid the DM to look after you. If you dont want the DM to be near you, then you should defiently "brief" him/her about it.

 

[Zieg]

Either you didnt understand the context which that statement was made in or you didnt WANT to understand. I think the latter..
The fact of the matter is that if you DO chase someone off or deliberately lose them, you HAVE been directly or indirectly involved in their death if thats the outcome of their dive. Unless you have no respect for life and death, you would care about your involvment. And from the incidents forums here, most people on the board seems to have some respect..

Sideband, Ana, Walter and whoever dont think a DM is paid to take care of you unless you have specifically said otherwise.. Why the hell do you PAY to go on a dive boat? You think the fuel cost 500 dollars for a two-tank dive?
The moment you set foot on a boat you paid to be on, you have already paid the DM to look after you. If you dont want the DM to be near you, then you should defiently "brief" him/her about it.

At what point do I become responsible for someone who decides to follow me or is told by someone else to follow me? Again, they are not my problem unless they get in my way. When do they learn to be responsible for themselves? And that goes for Divemasters also. A few years ago there were no divemasters to bother me. When they did come along, they were there for the people who needed their assistance. Now I can't go on a boat without some joker who thinks that just because he has some card that he is automatically all knowing about diving and in charge of me, that he has to put my fins on me, that he has to check my air requiring that he cranks on the value that was perfect before he came along, that he has to escort me to my seat, that I don't have a clue. I do not sign up for dives that are follow the leader or dives that are everybody hold hands. If a divemaster comes up to me underwater and signals a need for me to return to the boat, that there is a emergency recall, then I will return to the boat. But if he comes up to me to check my air because he likes to keep all his ducks in a row, well, it is none of his business and he might just get smacked. Again, I will say, IF someone is in trouble, I will do all that I can to help, but i will not be responsible for them. If they come up to me and ask where the anchor is I will point in the direction, I will not lead them there unless that is where I happen to be going. If they come up to me and show me they are getting low on air, but don't need air from me, I will point to the surface, as I have done. If for whatever non-emergency reason they start following me around, I will LOSE them. If they die, well I guess that was YOUR fault since YOU were not there to hold their hand.

 

[Sideband]

Sideband, Ana, Walter and whoever dont think a DM is paid to take care of you unless you have specifically said otherwise.. Why the hell do you PAY to go on a dive boat? You think the fuel cost 500 dollars for a two-tank dive?
The moment you set foot on a boat you paid to be on, you have already paid the DM to look after you. If you dont want the DM to be near you, then you should defiently "brief" him/her about it.

I pay for transportation to and from the site. I don't dive boats that insist on putting a DM in the water with me. In fact, I have never been on a boat that put a DM in the water other than to tie into a wreck. If I want assistance at any time I will ask for it. A good DM will know when he is needed and when he isn't. A bad DM will constantly be looking to make a rescue and will be in the way. Very typical of new DMs.

 

[Ana]

Hmmm.... ok... everything else you say seems reasonable... .

Well, I'm thrilled that you find a portion of my philosophy reasonable.

but this... how to put it... just don't get curious as to what it is you're finding so interesting "away from people" and come to investigate? .

That is correct, Let me say it slower D O N O T C O M E T O M Y S P A C E. Whatever it is I'm finding, it is MY finding; you'll either wait until I leave that area, or go the rest of your life not knowing what it was.

I'm pretty good at finding interesting stuff when I'm in "customer" mode. .

Once again… how great of you. Enjoy your interesting findings, share them with receptive people if you wish. But when someone doesn't react to your magnanimous generosity, let it be.

Some folks know that - and tend to show up from time to time. .

Good for those folks. In my years of diving I've come to the conclusion that I enjoy better a sand dive by myself than the most amazing site (filled with interesting findings) next to others.

I don't consider that an "unwelcome personal intrusion," however, but more an "opportunity to share." .

You and I consider things differently.
I bet you don't find many people questioning your desire to embrace an "opportunity to share", why do you feel the need to dig into the details of another person's different desire?

I suppose it's a perspective thing - everybody to their own kick.

Yes!!!!! it is a perspective thing, and how about that.

It is simple, the burden is on me to stay away from people, you (the generic you) just need to do your thing like if I wasn't around. Don't give me the duty nonsense, the humanity or the whatever.
As it is I'm already giving you more explanations than what you actually deserve, nothing personal is just none of your business.
My right to be on my own, away from people, doesn't interfere with anyone's rights, why is it so difficult for the "nice" people out there to accept this without arguments and criticism?

 

[fisheyeview]

Wow! I guess the post I made about why I do not show my DM card while on vacation has sparked some shall we say "Lively" debate. What I thought was just an anecdotal story has brought a lot of people to the table. Debate is good. It is one of the ways we learn things. I know I have learned things from the discussion.

I am jumping back in to clarify a few things:

1. Yes I am a divemaster. I am not just a divemaster when I choose to be, or when it is convenient.
2. I was a paying customer on the boat. My reason for being on that boat was because they were doing a particular dive that I wanted to do, and it fit the schedule for my dive buddy and I.
3. My dive buddy was my wife who is not a dive professional. She was also a paying customer on the boat.
4. As previously stated, both my wife and I are underwater photographers.
5. The boat crew knew that we were photographers. We told them so (as if they couldn't tell from all of the camera equipment that we carry), and that we were there to shoot a specific subject.
6. The dive site in question was known for a unique photo opportunity.
7. As previously stated, I had no knowledge of what the boat crew told the diver who followed us until after the dive.
8. I had no knowledge of her certification level until after the dive.
9. After the dive I had a long, and pleasant conversation with the diver. it was through this conversation that I learned that she was a newly certified diver, and that the boat crew had told her I was a DM and to follow me.
10. I was not working for the boat, nor had I ever worked for the boat prior to this occurance.
11. At no time during the dive did the diver exhibit any signs of distress, touble, or any problems what so ever.
12. I did not know that she was "solo diving" until after the dive.
13. I understand the ethical and moral responsibility that one assumes as a dive professional.
14. I have put aside my own needs or requirements while pleasure diving when I have seen a diver in need of assistance. Even when I have been shooting pictures. Just ask my wife about me shoving my camera at her as I swam off to help a diver while we were on vacation in Curacao recently. (As a side bar, the diver I helped waited for almost an hour after his shore dive for us to exit the water just to thank me. I have never had such a courteous and gracious response before. He was a true gentleman. All I did was put his tank back in his BC on the dive.)

Okay, here we go with some questions.

1. Did I not owe my first loyalty to my buddy who after all is not a dive professional, and was a paying customer on the boat?
2. If I had no knowledge of the "solo" divers certification level, or buddy status, should I be required to take responsibility for that diver? With the stipulation that saw no signs of distress, trouble or need from the "solo" diver.
3. If I and my dive buddy are paying costomers, are we not entitled to the right to dive for pleasure?
4. For those that have said that I should have taken charge of the diver, I ask you if you are, or have ever been an underwater photographer?
5. If you answer yes to # 4, then I ask you have you ever done macro photography with a housed SLR/DSLR? (The reason I ask this question is because when you are shooting pictures your focus is on your subject.)
6. If you answered yes to # 5, then I ask you have you ever shot a skittish subject?

I ask these questions to provoke new ideas, and ways of thinking. We are always learning. I look forward to your thoughts.

 

[IXΘYΣ]

why do you feel the need to dig into the details of another person's different desire?

Because it sounds like you might get all huffy and insulted at behavior that most folks I know consider "friendly" behavior. I don't like catching **** from someone whose "different desires" make my friendly behavior an offense. Without prior warning it just ain't fair!

you (the generic you) just need to do your thing like if I wasn't around.

But you yourself say you don't brief anyone - sounds a bit like entrapment to me... how do I know I need to do my thing like you aren't around if you don't tell me in advance? It really isn't the norm in the diving community I know. I know Walter says you are far more experienced than I, and I don't doubt that, but I have been at it longer, even if at a slower pace, and my exposure to diving groups is not "narrow."

Don't give me the duty nonsense,

Now that's revealing. Duty is many things, but the one thing it is NOT is nonsense. If you believe it is nonsense, we really never will understand each other.

My right to be on my own, away from people, doesn't interfere with anyone's rights, why is it so difficult for the "nice" people out there to accept this without arguments and criticism?

As long as you retain ownership or your reclusiveness, there's no problem, but when you rebuff friendliness as intrusion, you're projecting fault on the innocent. I understand your need to protect your position, but life really will be easier if you let up a little and give folks a little more slack
Or warning!

 

[IXΘYΣ]

A good DM will know when he is needed and when he isn't.

That's quite a bit different than the "stay away" you said before... a good DM will keep track of divers without most of 'em ever even noticing, and without interfereing with those who do notice.

 

[mdb]

but life really will be easier if you let up a little and give folks a little more slack
Or warning!

I doubt you will get any slack from resident pundits and "Pro's", after all, they "know it all". Sounds as if you are doing your best to be a good DM, have lots of experience, etc. This is just cyber diving with the same small group going back and forth. I'm sure your real diving is much more fun.

 

[adurso]

There is no way for a dive professional to know you have a "DNR" letter on file... sorry... if you need care, you'll get it, even if I just happen on the scene. It's just what I do. Hope that doesn't mean we can't be friends.

If you are familiar with the DNR concept you should be familiar with the concept of consent..without that, when you "happen on the scene" offering unwanted care, you are opening up an arena of civil and criminal issues