What makes a master diver?

[Walter]

--how nice of her.

I love the lady, but no one would ever confuse her with being "nice."

 

[adurso]

I bet all the people here preaching how they dont have any responsibility for another diver if they wherent "part of the plan" would feel pretty stupid if the diver they "chased away" or "deliberately lost" ended up dead.
Or maybe youre just stone cold killers that have no regard for human life?

Legal responsibility usually is your LEAST concern if youre involved in anyones death..

No man is an island entire of itself....any man's death diminishes me....other than that pithy sentiment would not faze me in the least, adults accept responsibility for their own behavior

 

[Zieg]

I bet all the people here preaching how they dont have any responsibility for another diver if they wherent "part of the plan" would feel pretty stupid if the diver they "chased away" or "deliberately lost" ended up dead.
Or maybe youre just stone cold killers that have no regard for human life?

Legal responsibility usually is your LEAST concern if youre involved in anyones death..

Nope, I would NOT feel pretty "stupid" in the least. I would NOT be involved in their death. Yes, if I was there and there was something I could do to help, as long as it did not endanger me, I would.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

To me, the situation is relatively clear. A single diver attempting to tag along. There really are only two possibilities. An experienced solo diver, being a pain, or a novice, lost or confused diver. To discriminate these divers would be relatively simple. Does the diver have a fully redundant equipment set up? If not, its not a qualified or equipped solo diver.

There's another choice ... the clueless diver.

I've been in this situation twice. Both times the "third wheel" was an experienced diver who had gotten separated from their dive buddy and just decided to "tag along" with someone else.

The first guy was a DM for the shop sponsoring the dive. His buddy had panicked and bolted to the surface. Since he didn't know where she went, he simply decided to hook up with another dive team and continue his dive. Meanwhile, the person he was supposed to be diving with was back on the boat, receiving medical attention, and hadn't a clue why he hadn't surfaced.

The second guy had also lost his dive buddy, and decided to hook up with me and Cheng. This guy was in doubles, so I figured maybe he was just some solo diver out on a mission to bother people.

Once back on the boat, both of those guys received "scuba instruction" they didn't ask for ... hopefully some of it got thru the bone ..

So, we have a novice, lost or confused diver. In that situation, is it right to send that diver off alone? We all know that a solo diver (without appropriate training and experience) is at significant risk of accident or injury. So, leave aside questions of legal responsibility, duty of care etc - is it simply *human* to send that diver off alone?

Well, it's one thing to read this story from the comfort of a keyboard ... and another altogether to experience it.

How do you know she was a novice, lost or confused? How do you know what training and experience she has? You never talked to her.

I got into divemastering and later instructing to *help* people, not to swim away from them. If you see my ethical position as "wrong", well, so be it. But I know I would sleep better at night having helped than having swam away. A single "good" dive is just not worth the risk to another person life.
-j-

I don't see your position as wrong ... I see it as your personal choice. To call someone making a different choice despicable or unethical is wrong.

You're basing your choice on assumptions ... those are easy to resolve in an internet discussion, and much more difficult to resolve in a real-life, underwater situation. Assumptions can put you or your dive buddy in danger underwater. If you haven't had an experience to point that out yet, I hope you never do. In the meantime, try not to be too judgmental of those who don't make the same assumptions you do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Or maybe youre just stone cold killers that have no regard for human life?

That has got to be the all-time stupidest comment I have ever read on ScubaBoard.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lucybuykx]

If someone tags along with me and my buddy that I would talk with them using signs backed up with a slate. I cannot imagine a situation when I would try to lose them or "give them the finger" during the dive even if it means aborting the dive.

There is no dive that cannot be done again another day.

I'm no saint. I'd be p***d off if the boat crew told someone to follow me without my permission but that can only be resolved up top. While you are underwater then live with it, or better, replan on the hoof (or should that be fin?!) and involve them in your dive. For the photographers perhaps getting the other diver to spot stuff to shoot. You all then enjoy the dive and maybe even get some more out of it. For the next dive, talk it through above water.

 

[Ana]

If someone tags along with me and my buddy that I would talk with them using signs backed up with a slate. I cannot imagine a situation when I would try to lose them or "give them the finger" during the dive even if it means aborting the dive.

There is no dive that cannot be done again another day.

I'm no saint. I'd be p***d off if the boat crew told someone to follow me without my permission but that can only be resolved up top. While you are underwater then live with it, or better, replan on the hoof (or should that be fin?!) and involve them in your dive. For the photographers perhaps getting the other diver to spot stuff to shoot. You all then enjoy the dive and maybe even get some more out of it. For the next dive, talk it through above water.

Mother Theresa died years ago, I'm certainly not applying for the position.

For some people diving is a kumbaya activity, fantastic!!! Just keep in mind that for others, underwater is THE PLACE where they can be on their own, do not invade people's personal space.

 

[IXΘYΣ]

do not invade people's personal space.

Just out of curiosity, how big is this "personal space" bubble you push/drag along with you under water? Do you brief your fellow divers on how far away from you they must stay?
When in "DM" mode I'll frequently shadow a buddy team for a few moments, even 'accidentally' swim close across someone's path while surreptitiously peeking at their gas supply or computer. Is that "invading?" Will you get ticked? More importantly, will your family forbid a lawsuit in the event that you screw up and die while the DM/crew keeps your personal space intact?

 

[Walter]

Just out of curiosity, how big is this "personal space" bubble you push/drag along with you under water? Do you brief your fellow divers on how far away from you they must stay?
When in "DM" mode I'll frequently shadow a buddy team for a few moments, even 'accidentally' swim close across someone's path while surreptitiously peeking at their gas supply or computer. Is that "invading?" Will you get ticked? More importantly, will your family forbid a lawsuit in the event that you screw up and die while the DM/crew keeps your personal space intact?

I've never seen you dive, but odds are about 100:1 that you'll need help before Ana does. I've known many excellent divers over the years, she's right there at the top. She has more dives in very rigorous conditions than you and me combined.

 

[IXΘYΣ]

I've never seen you dive, but odds are about 100:1 that you'll need help before Ana does. I've known many excellent divers over the years, she's right there at the top. She has more dives in very rigorous conditions than you and me combined.

I'm surprised at you, Walter! You usually stay on the subject, but this response is totally fallacious and ad-hominem.
The odds of my needing help, or her needing help are irrelevant; I'd hope we both know our own envelopes well enough to never need any. Mine's probably tiny compared to many, but it doesn't bear on the question, does it?
Now, if you have something useful to post with reference to the "stay away from me" attitude expressed by Ana and the duty of care inherent in being a DM, and how to reconcile the two so that the DM doesn't ever catch Ana's (or other divers with that attitude) ire while being a responsible fellow human being and DM, please do offer it.