What is the most logical place to put an Octopus?

[johndiver999]

My imperfect understanding is that when the alternate air source was added to the OW diving kit, the question was where to put it. They decided that in the triangle worked.

Separately, the cave diving/tech community saw that they needed a different approach, so the long hose and bungeed necklace was created.

The two approaches came from two communities with two needs. My guess is that the triangle is still used for two reasons.

1. Long standing tradition
2. The association of the necklace with the long hose, which is not needed for most diving. For open water, NDL dives, I use the alternate on the necklace, but I use a 40" hose for the primary, routing it under my right arm and up for streamlining.

This is just a guess, but it is my understanding that (historically) second stages were secured by a neck strap pretty commonly, way before anyone thought of an octopus.

If this is true, and a good portion of people were still using a necklace (FOR THEIR PRIMARY), then it would make no sense to add a second one around the neck, so they had to add it somewhere else. There is only a limited amount of options for location that make any sense.

 

[Troglodyti 4.0]

Novice divers can put their octo anywhere they like within the triangle, because if I happen to run out of air (which won't happen) or they happen to run out of air (which won't happen while I'm there). But if both your regulators free-flow because you hadn't serviced the regulators for a long time, then I will give you the thumbs up and watch how you perform a CESA.

 

[GF99/99]

KISS Why do people use necklaces at all?

People use necklaces for that exact reason. KISS.

• 40" hoses dragging through the coral reef is not KISS
• 10 different divers clipping, looping, tucking, stuffing, and using funny mouth piece holder for a alternative 2nd stage is not KISS
• Having a alternate air source on your inflator is not KISS
• Trying to find your dive buddies alternate that is stuffed in his BCD in a completely different orientation they yours in an emergency scenario is not KISS
• 10 different instructors teaching 10 different ways locate your alternate is not KISS

Short hose on a necklace is the simplest, easiest, and most idiot proof way to have access to an alternate second stage. It is always in the same spot, it can not fall out of place, your dive buddies all know where it is in a rescue scenario, no entanglement hazard, if you actually install your bungee correctly it is supposed to be close enough that you can reach it hand free (in a stuck/entanglement scenario you should be able to reach it with your mouth hand free)

There is a reason why technical divers have universally adopted the long hose short hose on a necklace setup. It works, it is safe and it is KISS

 

[GF99/99]

I don’t see why you’d struggle to find an octo that you put yourself on your own kit.

KISS Why do people use necklaces at all?

Because it is not KISS:

you get the missive behind the back looper variations

Stuffer variations:

over the shoulder tuckers:

The down low clippers

 

[GF99/99]

The loopers

The tie'ers

 

[GF99/99]

and then the over achiever left handers

and don't forget about these guys

 

[FishWatcher747]

The association of the necklace with the long hose, which is not needed for most diving. For open water, NDL dives, I use the alternate on the necklace, but I use a 40" hose for the primary, routing it under my right arm and up for streamlining.

Well, actually this is my present set up but the primary is over my shoulder. It certainly would be long enough to primary donate if needed although the necklaced alternate hose is longer.

As I said now that I have a necklaced alternate I would be just as happy to primary donate from this configuration.

 

[Kendall Raine]

If ever there were a case of a picture(s) being worth a thousand words it would be those.

Well done.

 

[MyBuddy]

I am asking you to think outside the box. If you take the typical recreational setup with the recreational hose lengths, instead of putting the secondary regulator in the triangle, put it on a necklace.

Win, Win.

So in this configuration:

• How long is the hose?
• How are we routing the hose so that:
  • The hose isn’t hanging loose?
  • Is not somehow entrapped in an attempt to keep the hose from dangling?
  • The reg and hose weight aren’t completely hanging from the necklace and at risk of pulling free so that the reg ends up dangling beneath you?

There’s a reason that in the standard necklace setup a 20”ish hose is routed behind the neck. Besides being streamlined, the weight of the reg is resting on the back of your neck and the necklace is more or less just keeping the reg under the chin which is less likely to pull out. If it does get pulled free from the necklace is still pretty much where it’s supposed to be.

I’m not sure how I’d feel about telling my buddy that if they need air the one they should grab reach past my primary under my chin for my oct. Someone that hasn’t had a breath in a minute is likely not going to be gentle when grabbing for a reg so there’s a good chance they’ll also knock your primary out of your mouth. Ideally you’d see them coming and be able to offer them a reg, but unideal situations aren’t likely to be ideal. If they are going to be grabbing a reg I’d rather the reg be the primary and leave the necklaced reg where it was. Actually, I’d rather they mug me for a reg in the “triangle” that is away from the reg in my mouth but that’s not the configuration I choose to dive as I believe the benefits of diving with a redundant gas source on a necklace outweigh the negatives.

 

[MyBuddy]

We were assisting a diver back onto dry land using a harness lift and it snagged their necklace while they were in the water

This seems like an extremely fringe case so I don’t think I’ll be modifying my setup to account for a harness lift entanglement. Being mugged by an OOG diver although rare seems much more likely than being entangled by a device I’ve never encountered.

I’m still trying to envision the device you’re describing. Was this a mechanical lift on a boat or a dock? Or is it a manual lift using a harness to help the diver back to shore?