What is the most logical place to put an Octopus?

[boulderjohn]

I don't understand the logic behind any regulator being in the triangle.

My imperfect understanding is that when the alternate air source was added to the OW diving kit, the question was where to put it. They decided that in the triangle worked.

Separately, the cave diving/tech community saw that they needed a different approach, so the long hose and bungeed necklace was created.

The two approaches came from two communities with two needs. My guess is that the triangle is still used for two reasons.

1. Long standing tradition
2. The association of the necklace with the long hose, which is not needed for most diving. For open water, NDL dives, I use the alternate on the necklace, but I use a 40" hose for the primary, routing it under my right arm and up for streamlining.

 

[FishWatcher747]

I have never seen a regulator on a necklace with the donor expecting the OOA diver to take the one on the necklace. I guess it could happen, but I don't see the point.

What is the difference between telling a buddy to take the secondary regulator from the triangle and telling him to take the one from the necklace?

For me, having the secondary on a necklace is beneficial because:
1. If an OOA diver takes my primary, my secondary is on a necklace ready to go. No searching in the triangle.
2. If my regulator gets knocked out of my mouth, the secondary is ready to go. No searching for the primary or the secondary.
3. During my safety stop I switch to my secondary as practice switching regulators. It is right there. No searching.
Edit 4. If my primary starts breathing wet or has some other malfunction and I want to switch to my secondary, no searching.

 

[BlueTrin]

If you own your kit, why would you search in the triangle?

 

[boulderjohn]

What is the difference between telling a buddy to take the secondary regulator from the triangle and telling him to take the one from the necklace?

1. If you have it loosely placed in the necklace, it has the same primary fault as in the triangle--it can fall out on its own and not be available when needed.
2. It is hard to get to under the chin when you are in a normal diving position. You have to reach past the primary to get to it, unless you have a ridiculously long necklace.
3. If you are in tight quarters, like a wreck or a cave, you will not be able to get to it easily, reaching between the chin and the floor.
4. It is much slower than primary donate. It takes only about a second for primary donate to extend the regulator to the OOA diver.
5. I don't advocate having the OOA diver take it from the triangle, either. I want the diver to take the primary from my hand.

 

[FishWatcher747]

1. If you have it loosely placed in the necklace, it has the same primary fault as in the triangle--it can fall out on its own and not be available when needed.
2. It is hard to get to under the chin when you are in a normal diving position. You have to reach past the primary to get to it, unless you have a ridiculously long necklace.
3. If you are in tight quarters, like a wreck or a cave, you will not be able to get to it easily, reaching between the chin and the floor.
4. It is much slower than primary donate. It takes only about a second for primary donate to extend the regulator to the OOA diver.
5. I don't advocate having the OOA diver take it from the triangle, either. I want the diver to take the primary from my hand.

I get that primary donate with a long hose in any restriction diving is superior. I get that.

But the agency I did OW with taught secondary donate. So again my contention is if we are teaching secondary donate in an open water situation with similar length hoses of primary and secondary regulators the logical place to put the secondary regulator is on a necklace that releases with a firm pull similar to a properly functioning holder in the triangle.

If the mouth were located in the triangle then putting the secondary regulator in the triangle would make sense.

 

[boulderjohn]

But the agency I did OW with taught secondary donate. So again my contention is if we are teaching secondary donate in an open water situation

1. Your first problem is that you are starting with an unnecessary restriction. I don't know of any agency that requires teaching secondary donate. What I assume you are saying is that you had an individual instructor who taught secondary donate using a conventional regulator setup, and you are saying it would be better to do that from a necklace than the traditional triangle.
2. You said you see why primary donate with a necklace alternate is superior in some settings. Why learn and practice two different systems?
3. I am not clear on whether you believe that secondary donate is God's gift to scuba or i you just think you are required by the Pope of diving to do it that way. If you believe that secondary donate, with the innate problem of alternates coming loose, is so wonderful, perhaps you should explain why.

 

[FishWatcher747]

Your first problem is that you are starting with an unnecessary restriction. I don't know of any agency that requires teaching secondary donate. What I assume you are saying is that you had an individual instructor who taught secondary donate using a conventional regulator setup, and you are saying it would be better to do that from a necklace than the traditional triangle.

Correct. I have heard no argument against that if one is teaching secondary donate that putting the secondary on a necklace is not superior. This is how I am diving now and I have no intention of ever putting a regulator in the triangle again.

1. You said you see why primary donate with a necklace alternate is superior in some settings. Why learn and practice two different systems?
2. I am not clear on whether you believe that secondary donate is God's gift to scuba or i you just think you are required by the Pope of diving to do it that way. If you believe that secondary donate, with the innate problem of alternates coming loose, is so wonderful, perhaps you should explain why.

I alluded to this in a previous post. If I did no diving in restrictions I don't think it matters primary or secondary donate. The truth is even as a recreational diver I do restrictions. The swim throughs in Coz and Cenote cavern diving it would be better if I switched to long hose primary donate.

Thanks for your input.

 

[BlueTrin]

I get that primary donate with a long hose in any restriction diving is superior. I get that.

But the agency I did OW with taught secondary donate. So again my contention is if we are teaching secondary donate in an open water situation with similar length hoses of primary and secondary regulators the logical place to put the secondary regulator is on a necklace that releases with a firm pull similar to a properly functioning holder in the triangle.

If the mouth were located in the triangle then putting the secondary regulator in the triangle would make sense.

I don’t see why you’d struggle to find an octo that you put yourself on your own kit.

 

[FishWatcher747]

I don’t see why you’d struggle to find an octo that you put yourself on your own kit.

KISS Why do people use necklaces at all?

 

[Kendall Raine]

One thing I have noticed often, is that when people use these loose necklaces, the octo often falls off, but I guess that would be the case too if they put it in the triangle with a holder.

Even the best systems can be defeated by poor execution/technique/nincompoopery. The necklaced second stage should never be able to just drop out of the bungee. It should either be zip tied in (back mount) or used with a slip knot (side mount) that gets tighter if it's pulled. The non-adjustable store bought surgical tubing necklaces are idiotic.