What is the future of GUE?

[Compressor]

was just trying to point out that most of us (senior DIR? people lol) aren't clones and we diverge on how we approach what's taught in class and what's actually taught hasn't been totally static either.

I like that a lot. While there is a "system", I think its important to not a clone but be "thinking".

 

[KevinNM]

Kirill A. Egorov
GUE Cave and Tech Administrator

That's a pretty authoritative answer.

 

[PfcAJ]

I like that a lot. While there is a "system", I think its important to not a clone but be "thinking".

Sometimes starting as a clone is ok though.

Some folks never break out of clone mode though and that's unfortunate.

 

[Compressor]

Sometimes starting as a clone is ok though.

Some folks never break out of clone mode though and that's unfortunate.

Of course I agree.

 

[Freezerbrn]

In my 7 yrs of being a GUE member, I see that the Numbers are still growing in Los Angeles. Orange County just got it's first official GUE Fundamentals Instructor David Watson.

 

[jadairiii]

Some would argue that GUE has not survived. If you go back and look at what the core values and standards of GUE were back when it started (See JJ’s Book Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving) and what they are today, they are two very different organizations.

There is also the problem of GUE no longer being unique in the industry. All of the agencies now teach some version of “DIR” or have added “DIR” tracks to their curriculum. Does GUE still have some world class instructors? Of course, but so do all of the agencies. And the quality of the GUE teaching materials are in dire need of updating (or at least spell checking). I ask you, how many times does one person need to hear the lecture on Project Baseline?

So when you ask, “will GUE be around in 10 years” the actual question should be “what will GUE be in 10 years”? How much further will they relax their standards? What will be the quality of the true second generation instructors of GUE once all of the original founding instructors have left or retired. Will GUE be relevant in 10 years? IMHO, there will be an organization called GUE with a small cadre of divers and instructors believing they are still “the best” but so far from the original GUE as to not be relevant or even worth the time discussing. I think we can all picture the scene on a dive boat (or at a cave) in 10 years with 3 overweight divers, one sidemount rigged, one in independent doubles back mounted and one on a CCR (all in black of course) bragging about how great being a GUE diver is……..which will be a shame

 

[Diver0001]

If there are any senior GUE divers, your input would be appreciated.

The organization has built a very solid reputation for quality instruction and mentorship and has built a culture of like-minded people all around the world who dive in a similar manner. This has a certain appeal to serious divers who are seeking superior training than what the shop around the corner is promising.

It has been slow to accept changes. It resisted computers, CCR and still does not accept side mount and solo diving. In the age of backmount this style of training and diving was obviously superior to most other options. Would GUE still have the same appeal in another 10 years?

Are GUE numbers increasing or are they decreasing? I understand this is not an agency that has ever measured its strength by its numbers but how dofficult would it be to find a GUE buddy 10 - 15 years from now?

I've watched the rise of GUE since the very beginning, from the time when they hit the market with a disruptive paradigm to the point where certain members were directly responsible for the most derisive, abusive and psychologically damaging paradigm battle in the history of scuba diving to the point where it seemed to settle in to a statement of best practices to the point where it is today where it is more of a training agency and less of a stylized form of scuba diving and marketing instrument for Halcyon.

In 2003 during a dive trip where he was my buddy, a friend of mine who was a hard-core DIR/GUE diver at the time explained what it was like to be a DIR diver at that time. He said, "being a DIR diver is 90% talking intelligently about diving and 10% diving". I remember that statement verbatim. Of course he was talking about the local DIR community in Holland, which was just learning about the system at the time and, of course, it was a long time ago now.

In the intervening time things have calmed down. Old wounds have partially healed, the axe has been mostly buried and GUE has matured into an actual training agency. People don't mention GUE and Halcyon in the same breath anymore, the DIR wars are behind us, AG quit GUE and started is own anti-everyone-who-doesn't-agree-with-me agency and GUE's reputation has never been better.

So 10-15 years from now you'll still be able to find GUE buddies. I'm sure of that. In fact, I think they will continue to grow, gain more traction and perhaps in the process lose a little of the added value of being a niche player, such as being able to re-calibrate all of the instructors from time to time.

That said, I think GUE divers will still be among the better trained divers out there 15 years from now. Naturally their approach to diving will mean that they will always lag behind the curve with respect to innovations but that may not be a bad thing.

R..

 

[PfcAJ]

Some would argue that GUE has not survived. If you go back and look at what the core values and standards of GUE were back when it started (See JJ’s Book Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving) and what they are today, they are two very different organizations.

There is also the problem of GUE no longer being unique in the industry. All of the agencies now teach some version of “DIR” or have added “DIR” tracks to their curriculum. Does GUE still have some world class instructors? Of course, but so do all of the agencies. And the quality of the GUE teaching materials are in dire need of updating (or at least spell checking). I ask you, how many times does one person need to hear the lecture on Project Baseline?

So when you ask, “will GUE be around in 10 years” the actual question should be “what will GUE be in 10 years”? How much further will they relax their standards? What will be the quality of the true second generation instructors of GUE once all of the original founding instructors have left or retired. Will GUE be relevant in 10 years? IMHO, there will be an organization called GUE with a small cadre of divers and instructors believing they are still “the best” but so far from the original GUE as to not be relevant or even worth the time discussing. I think we can all picture the scene on a dive boat (or at a cave) in 10 years with 3 overweight divers, one sidemount rigged, one in independent doubles back mounted and one on a CCR (all in black of course) bragging about how great being a GUE diver is……..which will be a shame

I think gue is the best game in town, but it kills me to see it become more and more like every other agency.

There's so many classes designed to cater to everyone, and I think that pushes it more toward mediocrity. Classes that blur (what I feel are) important lines. Classes being taught that are half-baked. Classes being taught to divers that really shouldn't be in those classes. I feel it's driven more and more by profit for instructors, who are less and less actual explorers. I always appreciated the simplicity of the course progression and the no-nonsense approach to... everything. That's all fading.

It's still the best, imo, but I fear that won't always be the case.

 

[KevinNM]

I know you have always had issues with Rec 3, what other classes do you see as questionable?

 

[PfcAJ]

I know you have always had issues with Rec 3, what other classes do you see as questionable?

I really don't like it that Ccr is taught with an instructor also on ccr. I think the course content is lacking based on what I've seen but I admittedly haven't taken the class. The course also isn't standardized adequately and I feel like it's being made up as they go along. Big grumble of mine.

Dive leader (I think that's what the new gue DM thing is called), supervised diver, gas blender, doc diver, tech 60 are all extraneous classes that I just can't get behind. I do not feel there needs to be a "class" for everything in the universe, nor do I think gue should bein the business of half way certs like
"Supervised diver". I thought cave 3 and tech 3 were silly when they were on the books, too.

But ESPECIALLY rec 3!! Pitchforks! ------E