What is the fundamental reason that prevents scuba diving from becoming popular?

[Wibble]

Just one question Marie:
Is your friend a technical diver? (that's more than 60m!).
Without Trimix we are talking about possible O² poisoning (close to the 1.6ATA limit) and not just the bends...

It's a Normoxic Trimix dive -- as per all technical agencies. With a rebreather it's MOD2.

A 60m/200ft OC dive would use the appropriate standard backgas (18/45) plus two decompression gasses (50% + 80%/100%). Just need money to pay for the 2,500 litres (89.28571429cf) costing $445 for the helium alone (using $5/cf). Oxygen would add another $30.
Circa $475 + boat fees on OC.

On a rebreather you'd be carrying your 18/45 bailout with 50%-ish deco stage. The diluent gas would be 15/50 or thereabouts. You'd use very little diluent, say 150 litres (probably less). Thus you're only using 75 litres of helium (2.67857143cf) at a price of less than $15 + $3 for the oxygen + $5 for the sodalime. You'd also get considerably more bottom time (and consequential deco time) on CCR.
Circa $23 + boat fees on CCR.

 

[Wibble]

Mares and Poseidon offer much more reliable systems and fail safe alarms these days if you have around 5K to spare

Rebreathers: use the popular and recommended ones -- ask any rebreather diver on here. You'll not hear many recommending those two; you'll hear lots of people recommending Revo, JJ, Megladon, Fathom, Kiss...

For someone who's starting from a basis of excellent core skills and ANDP, they need (IMHO) a couple of years to work up the experience and dive time to be competent doing those deeper wrecks.

Out of date experience is a killer in CCR land as it leads to complacency.

 

[El Diablo]

???

If you're certified to 18m (PADI OW), then going beyond that is simply between you and your insurance company.

Maybe could call that foolish, guess it depends upon the diver's ability and attitude to diving.

One would expect them to have their Additional Open Water (AOW) and probably taken the Deep speciality within that.

We are spending too much time on the theoretical dive limits according to the certification and / or stupidity levels while we should be focusing on the variables that can go wrong when a newly certified diver with minimum experience is exposed to conditions that are unknown to him.

We all know that 1 single incident rarely results in a fatal accident BUT given the 'right' (wrong) conditions, things can escalate quickly and result in a panic situation with unexpected behavior than can lead to drowning. IMO, OWD that need help setting up their gear SHOULDN'T dive the SS Thistlegorm or any other wreck at depth no matter what PADI or other organizations say, especially with strong currents and low visibility. Furthermore, the DM took all of the remaining group inside the wreck while the majority of folks were already below 100 Bar... a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[El Diablo]

It's a Normoxic Trimix dive -- as per all technical agencies. With a rebreather it's MOD2.

A 60m/200ft OC dive would use the appropriate standard backgas (18/45) plus two decompression gasses (50% + 80%/100%). Just need money to pay for the 2,500 litres (89.28571429cf) costing $445 for the helium alone (using $5/cf). Oxygen would add another $30.
Circa $475 + boat fees on OC.

On a rebreather you'd be carrying your 18/45 bailout with 50%-ish deco stage. The diluent gas would be 15/50 or thereabouts. You'd use very little diluent, say 150 litres (probably less). Thus you're only using 75 litres of helium (2.67857143cf) at a price of less than $15 + $3 for the oxygen + $5 for the sodalime. You'd also get considerably more bottom time (and consequential deco time) on CCR.
Circa $23 + boat fees on CCR.

Thanks for the 'knowledge check' but that wasn't what I was asking Marie.
I asked IF her buddy is diving on Trimix or he is on a suicide mission

I've dove to 58m on Air to recover a cement block and net line on a fish farm that were displaced during a thunderstorm so it's doable BUT I've always been in great shape and I have the experience to do so in contrast to her friend.

 

[El Diablo]

Heard of Kiss, never heard of any of the others. As I previously said, not enough involvement nor interest so far BUT nevertheless, IF I ever decide to venture into them, especially for photography I will ask folks in the forum that have much more experience in the topic like yourself for advise

 

[Marie13]

Thanks for the 'knowledge check' but that wasn't what I was asking Marie.
I asked IF her buddy is diving on Trimix or he is on a suicide mission

I've dove to 58m on Air to recover a cement block and net line on a fish farm that were displaced during a thunderstorm so it's doable BUT I've always been in great shape and I have the experience to do so in contrast to her friend.

No one does deep dives on air anymore. It’s dangerous and if you’re going to do them, you’re on CCR which will help with the increasing cost and decreasing availability of helium.

 

[Wibble]

Heard of Kiss, never heard of any of the others. As I previously said, not enough involvement nor interest so far BUT nevertheless, IF I ever decide to venture into them, especially for photography I will ask folks in the forum that have much more experience in the topic like yourself for advise

JJs (from Denmark) are exceedingly popular in Europe. As are Inspirations (from UK) and X-CCR (from Czech Republic). Also SF2 (Germany), Triton (France).

Mares -- AFAIAA -- only make the Revo semi-closed rebreather (they bought Belgium-based Revo a few years ago)

 

[Dody]

Althou

I think you people raising the possibility of lack of swimming skills being an obstacle to getting into scuba diving are onto something. As a kid, I never learned to swim. We lived far from the ocean and lakes. Even if my parents could have afforded swimming lessons, which I am not sure about, I don't recall any of my friends ever mentioning swimming lessons. I had a couple of friends with backyard pools, but we didn't really swim. I went to day camp, but they put me in the roped-off shallow end of the pool. I was in Boy Scouts, where we had various opportunities to swim, but I never ventured far from shore. I was never encouraged to formally learn to swim.

Perhaps as a result, it never even occurred to me that I could learn scuba diving. Scuba was something exotic that I saw people like Cousteau doing on TV. The idea that I too could do that seemed almost as crazy to me as the idea I could walk on the moon. When I was in my early 30s I almost reluctantly got scuba-certified so I could see the famous Great Barrier Reef while touring Australia. I somehow managed to swim the few laps required for OW certification, but it was difficult. I did not enjoy swimming. It wasn't until I got into more advanced scuba training that I signed up for swim lessons. I love all things about the ocean, but I still don't enjoy swimmi

We talked about your experience with divers cancelling trips and your belief that the companies need to charge the divers for that. Here are two responses.

I signed up for a dive with a Pompano dive shop that does take credit card numbers. They say that they will not charge the card until the dive is confirmed--meaning there are enough divers to go. At 7:00 PM the night before the dive, they still had not confirmed, meaning I did not know if I was going to be getting up early the next morning to dive or if I had a chance to book with another operator at the last second. I sent an email to customer service asking for an update. I did not get a reply. About a half hour later, I got two emails at the same time. The first confirmed the dive and charged my credit card, and the second canceled the dive. I wrote back and asked for an explanation, but I got no reply. After a few days, when I saw that my credit card had indeed been charged for the canceled dive, I wrote again. Eventually, I got a credit on the card, again with no explanation.

A few years ago I was scheduled for a dive, and I woke up with the beginnings of a head cold. I thought about it. Maybe I could dive (I really wanted to), but I knew I shouldn't. I called and canceled. It was the right decision. If I knew that my card was going to be charged for that dive, I might have gone, against my better judgment. There is an old policy in scuba--a diver can call off any dive at any time for any reason, with no need to explain and with no judgment. Charging people for canceling dives goes directly against that policy and may push a diver to do a dive that should not be done.

A diver can call a dive at anytime for any reason but it does not mean that the diver will not suffer the financial consequences of the cancellation. Any diver can board a boat and say that he/ she is not well once on the diving spot. That’s fine. But this diver would be a d*** asking for a refund.

 

[El Diablo]

No one does deep dives on air anymore. It’s dangerous and if you’re going to do them, you’re on CCR which will help with the increasing cost and decreasing availability of helium.

I agree Marie and Wibble also brought some valuable information to the conversation.

Personally I don't go deep anymore unless there's something really interesting to see OR I have to.
The last years we dive in Madeira island and the deepest wreck is 35-40m (130ft) so that's more than enough.

I believe that once an individual has survived the craziness of youth and got away unscathed, he should be thankful and limit his exposure as much as possible. I was 'young & stupid' once, I don't want to become 'old & dead' sooner than necessary. Of course, other people like to take risks to feel alive so cheers to them also

 

[Dody]

I am still not happy with the coercive nature of a system that will drive a diver who is feeling ill into doing a dive he should not do.

Most DS are not big multinationals like airlines. Let’s say that you are a DS with 10 divers on a boat, each paying 50 bucks. Only 5 show up. You make 250 bucks instead of 500. You might not even cover your fixed costs. I believe that a DS cancelling a trip because of poor weather conditions is actually making a favor to the customer and the customer can always reschedule or get the money back. On the other hand when a customer cancels a dive at the last minute, there is an automatic financial impact.