What is the deepest you can do an OOA?

[Soggy]

Some people get it, and some don't. Have fun on your rocketship rides. I'll continue to carry redundant gear and a redundant brain to solve this non-existent problem.

I think the lack of understanding lies between the overhead and non-overhead trained people. Those with overhead training understand that you have to solve problems underwater, so bring appropriate gear and teammates to make sure that this never happens.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think the lack of understanding lies between the overhead and non-overhead trained people. Those with overhead training understand that you have to solve problems underwater, so bring appropriate gear and teammates to make sure that this never happens.

I think it's more a matter of mindset. Some instructors will train their students to resolve problems underwater ... and plan for doing so ... whether or not overhead training is involved. Divers who learn diving with this approach tend to view CESA as less relevent to their dive planning than good buddy skills, proper gas management, and appropriate gear choices.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cerich]

I think the lack of understanding lies between the overhead and non-overhead trained people. Those with overhead training understand that you have to solve problems underwater, so bring appropriate gear and teammates to make sure that this never happens.

Soggy,

I agree with you that CESA "should" never have to be an option.

However real life works differently, even in the most well disiplined, well trained team there is no possible manner to really know how teammate will react in a real emergency. There are quite a few of us on here that are ex military and served in combat, we know this from personal experience that even among well trained and even "elite" units that a persons first exposure to the worst case in real life is always a crap shoot as to the ability to act in the manner prescribed...

Personally I'm very aware of when I'm in an overhead enviornment and when I'm not. In any enviornment I want all possible means of survival if things go horribly wrong. Having done CESA's many time in training at depths of 100ft I know it is a very viable means of egress when there is no other option in a no overhead situation (which includes mandatory deco)

You can dismiss a CESA as a skill that can save your life, I won't. A funny thing about skills, they are a tool in the box, that box is your mind. It doesn't cost anything or make things any more difficult to have that tool there. When you find yourself as a thinking diver up againts a wall and you need to open the tool box for a solution I can promise you that having more tools won't be a bad thing.

Beyond the actual value of the skill as a last ditch, potentially lifesaving skill, it developes confidence and comfort in the water, something that we have as an industry all but forgotten about.

 

[cerich]

I think it's more a matter of mindset. Some instructors will train their students to resolve problems underwater ... and plan for doing so ... whether or not overhead training is involved. Divers who learn diving with this approach tend to view CESA as less relevent to their dive planning than good buddy skills, proper gas management, and appropriate gear choices.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Hey Bob!

It doesn't need to be one or the other. I want divers to solve problems in the most logical place to solve them. If you and your buddy get seperated by 100 feet in 200 ft vis at 30 feet with no deco obligation where is the safest source of air?

Yeah your buddy shouldn't get that far from you, yeah you shouldn't suddenly find yourself OOA but it can happen.

 

[H2Andy]

Yeah your buddy shouldn't get that far from you, yeah you shouldn't suddenly find yourself OOA but it can happen.

correct, and 90% of your training should go into preventing it from happening.
that's the safe way to deal with the problem.


that's the point

 

[gangrel441]

Some people get it, and some don't. Have fun on your rocketship rides. I'll continue to carry redundant gear and a redundant brain to solve this non-existent problem.

I think the lack of understanding lies between the overhead and non-overhead trained people. Those with overhead training understand that you have to solve problems underwater, so bring appropriate gear and teammates to make sure that this never happens.

Those in overhead are playing a different game. If you have rocks over your head, you can't make a direct ascent. One less option for you. Doesn't mean that if you DO have the option it should be disregarded. This attitude falls somewhere between eletist and just plain stupid.

 

[cerich]

correct, and 90% of your training should go into preventing it from happening.
that's the safe way to deal with the problem.


that's the point

Of course Andy, but dismissing the skill as not needed or possible just because you should never need it if "do everything right" doesn't make sense.

 

[H2Andy]

Of course Andy, but dismissing the skill as not needed or possible just because you should never need it if "do everything right" doesn't make sense.

dang, man, that's a strawman argument

Bob wasn't suggesting that

learn the skill, but don't rely on it as the ultimate solution. rely on good diving practices as the ultimate solution. if they should fail you, then take the exit of last resort, but think of it that way.

 

[Soggy]

Those in overhead are playing a different game. If you have rocks over your head, you can't make a direct ascent. One less option for you. Doesn't mean that if you DO have the option it should be disregarded. This attitude falls somewhere between eletist and just plain stupid.

No, it proves that the 'skill' is unnecessary.

The last thing I want on my next decompression dive is to have any inkling that the surface is a viable option, especially when it doesn't need to be. I also have no doubt I would figure the 'skill' out very quickly if I were down at the bottom without anything to breathe.

 

[cerich]

dang, man, that's a strawman argument

Bob wasn't suggesting that

learn the skill, but don't rely on it as the ultimate solution. rely on good diving practices as the ultimate solution. if they should fail you, then take the exit of last resort, but think of it that way.

you're correct, Soggy is...