What is the deepest you can do an OOA?

[Diver Dennis]

I'm of the mentality that one of the scenarios to prepare for is ending up alone. For whatever reason, you end up alone. Where's your backup gas now. On you ex-buddies back. Oh wait I forgot, that would never happen to you. He who is self sufficient have some slight advantage over she/he who relies on others.
But then again, if I thought like some of you, I don't have to carry a spare light, whistle, strobe, SMB, knife, etc... Because my buddy already carries one.

I think we are saying that a CESA is a viable option in this scenario. Problems do happen, especially if you don't service your equipment or don't check your gauges but most recreational divers will never even witness an emergency U/W, let alone participate in one. Ponies are not bad at all but I don't think everyone should have to have one.

 

[Blackwood]

No, the "reality is" that fundamental skills like team diving and gear redundancy is not being taught to an acceptable level and thus those drowning divers made mistakes that should never have happened in the first place.

He said: "There is only one situation in which you would use a CESA, and coincidentally in that situation there is no other option for survival."

One can conceive of situations in which you'd, for example, run out of gas even with proper gas management. That would be an appropriate use of the CESA.

 

[Soggy]

One can conceive of situations in which you'd, for example, run out of gas even with proper gas management. That would be an appropriate use of the CESA.

Please conceive for me (not with me ). Barring equipment failure (which is why, over and over again, I've stressed team awareness and/or gas redundancy), what is a situation where I could run out of gas even with proper gas management?

 

[Blackwood]

What would you call a situation where you, for some reason, ended up without gas? I'd call it a f-up.

Such situations are highly unlikely, but not impossible:

All dive team members blow disks;
All dive team members blow o-rings;
Sudden current drives all team members' tank valves into a wall rendering them useless.

etc.

Personally, given the extreme remoteness of such situations occurring, I say preparing for them (CESA) is a waste of time. Others may disagree, and that is their prerogative.

edit: Just saw your last post regarding "barring equipment failure."

 

[JeffG]

Such situations are highly unlikely, but not impossible:

All dive team members blow disks;
All dive team members blow o-rings;
Sudden current drives all team members tank valves into a wall rendering them useless.

As probably as an alien attack on earth.

 

[HowardE]

It certainly isn't me. If you are going to choose to solo dive, you need a redundant gas supply.

He means me (I think). And while I don't make it a habit to dive to 100' without a buddy, I don't have a problem with it. As I stated when this whole thing started in the other thread about pony bottles...I would only do it in my comfort zone - which is -

In Florida, in the Ocean, on an open water dive, in warm water, well within the NDL limits. I frequently check my SPG (probably about once every 3-5 mintues), I know my average SAC rate, and how long my gas supply will last me on a given dive.

I would not do a wreck penetration solo, or dive in a place where there was an entanglement issue solo either.

 

[all4scuba05]

Yes, *somewhere* there was a screw up.



It's not rocket science....

There are two ways to run out of gas...
1) you got stupid and just ran out...that should never happen to anyone

2) You had an equipment related problem, freeflow, burst disk, hose bursts, etc, which gives you at least a minute or two to handle the problem...during which time you either switch to your redundant gas or to your buddy's gas.




That is your choice, and I would recommend a set of doubles for you. You are solo diving.



It certainly isn't me. If you are going to choose to solo dive, you need a redundant gas supply.

My depth dictates when I bring the pony. I don't do certain dives without it. I already said that. There are different groups of divers here. Some say that he who brings a pony is one who doesn't know how to manage his air. Sh_t never happens to them. There's also the other group that believes your buddy is your pony. Sh_t never happens to them. Still another group believes if you find yourself doing a CESA, you screwed up somewhere in your planning or dive. You being one of them. Sh_t never happens to you either. Well God Bless You. You dive with an Angel.

 

[Blackwood]

As probably as an alien attack on earth.

Hmm...

I think I'd say the alien attack is more likely.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My depth dictates when I bring the pony. I don't do certain dives without it. I already said that. There are different groups of divers here. Some say that he who brings a pony is one who doesn't know how to manage his air. Sh_t never happens to them. There's also the other group that believes your buddy is your pony. Sh_t never happens to them. Still another group believes if you find yourself doing a CESA, you screwed up somewhere in your planning or dive. You being one of them. Sh_t never happens to you either. Well God Bless You. You dive with an Angel.

Well ... either you are intentionally misquoting people or you have a great deal to learn about dive planning.

It isn't that sh_t never happens to them ... it's that they've considered what might happen, weighed alternatives, and planned for more appropriate responses.

CESA is your last option in an emergency ... not your first one.

Proper planning and monitoring of your gas supply will keep you from having a gas emergency in all but a tiny fraction of a percent of all the dives you will ever do.

Within that tiny fraction lie human error and equipment malfunctions ... the former a far greater risk than the latter, even within that tiny percentage margin you're already dealing with. Equipment malfunctions are very rare.

Blowing an O-ring or burst disk will still allow you to have breathable gas out of a tank for the time it takes for the gas to escape the tank ... sometimes that can be adequate to make a controlled ascent, assuming you keep your head and are able to ignore the tremendous noise and confusion such a failure entails.

Choosing an appropriate dive buddy will eliminate virtually any need for CESA. In the case of having to dive with a buddy of circumstance, alternatives would include either maintaining a conservative (shallow) dive profile or taking an alternate air source. If I were traveling alone in a case like that, I'd probably make arrangements to sling a pony and dive solo ... it'd reduce the risks.

In other words, there are way more options than the ones you're allowing for. Either through misrepresentation or ignorance you are ignoring the most viable ones ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Soggy]

Still another group believes if you find yourself doing a CESA, you screwed up somewhere in your planning or dive. You being one of them. Sh_t never happens to you either. Well God Bless You. You dive with an Angel.

Please come up with a scenario where a dive resulting in a CESA was not the result of someone screwing up.