What is required to become an Advanced Open Water Diver?

[TexasMike]

And thanks to the rest of you for you're replies. Like diving with a more experienced person, reading what you have to say is teaching me some good stuff.

--TexasMike =-)

 

[sea nmf]

I certified through Rescue with PADI with about 20 dives about 11 years ago. I feel now that this is not enough to qualify me to rescue anyone. My primary purpose was to learn how to rescue myself. I think the Rescue course should be taken every three or so years to stay current and ready. I will say that I still remember the techniques I learned in the class but I may take it again anyway.

 

[Lost Yooper]

I'm certified up to TDI's Advanced Nitrox. I agree that it's better than a "PADI" course, but those that really know their stuff say that the TDI, IANTD, whatever, whatever, are an exteme distance behind GUE training. Many GUE instructors will tell you to get your nitrox and/or trimix training anyway you can (if GUE isn't available), then forget most of it, and learn from guys like Irvine and Jablonski for free off the net. What I like about these guys is they're out there giving book loads of information for no other reason than they want to see the sport become safer.

Take care,

Mike

PS. Better yet, learn to mix your own, get the books, and then learn from those guys. It would save you big bucks which could put a dent in a compressor.

 

[bridgenet]

My wife and I spent two weeks in the Carribean in January for 2 weeks, our honeymoon by the way . The first week we got our PADI Open Water and enjoyed it so much got our Advanced Open Water and Wreck Specialty the second. We are no way Advanced but what it did do for us was experience dives that we could never do alone. Depths of 110', diving on the Rhone at 85' with surprise high currents where we had to crawl along the bottom to get back to the line leading up to the dive boat. Having less than 100psi left in a tank while being banged around in heavy currents doing a safety stop. It is nothing like experiencing situations such as this to know how you would react. I think the PADI courses are meant to prepare you for the what-ifs and in our case they did well. We are headed back in August and will have our Master rating after two more weeks. To me the rating is preparation for safety, but am I a Master diver after 4 weeks of total diving, no way. I figure getting this rating up front keeps me from developing bad habits that I would have had if I only had Open Water Certification.

 

[neil]

Bridgenet,
It is my ever so humble, but educated instructor-type opinion that it is a bit of a blunder to be at a safety stop from an '85 dive with only 100psi left. Which is by way of saying that these courses, as we know, are not "advanced" or "master" by any means. That you handled the situation calmly is admirable in any case. (I really wish the agencies wouldn't call that specialty "wreck diving" anyway). What you got was a nicely extended open water course. Have fun!

To Yooper,
I'm not sure why GUE basic nitrox course would be that much different that a TDI, IANTD or NAUI. At least in the NAUI course I teach, students learn that using nitrox at recreational depths is NOT technical diving and they need training specific to those activities (cave, wreck, deco, ice, deep). I mean really, what does George Irvine know about doing no-stop nitrox dives at 80 feet that I don't? Or couldn't learn in short order. If you're teaching equipment configuration, philosophy AND nitrox, it's not really just a nitrox course anymore, is it? Apples and oranges IMHO. Just my 2 cents.
Neil

 

[bridgenet]

Neil, I totally agree. What the course did for me as a beginner diver is allow me to experience alot of different types of dives and education in a short amount of time. The dive on the Rhone was not the norm, but when hit by dangerous high currents out of no where having an instructor show me how to hand crawl along the bottom and simply signaling my buddy of low air while fighting the currents reinforced previous training and gave me the confidence that my buddy and I probably won't panic in a bad situation. I actually think that divers should be put into controlled emergency situations so they learn how not to panic. Although I will have a Master rating this summer, I think it is crazy, in reality it will be many years and dives before really being advanced. How can PADI call someone a Master after 4 weeks of dive time?

 

[Lost Yooper]

Neil,

IMO, part of the problem with most training agencies, is they instill absolutely horrible diving practices right from the beginning and do little to curve it as students progress. IMO, good diving form and philosohy are just as important as the material being taught. GUE has much higher standards for acceptance and graduation.

You say that IF you are teaching gear configuration and philosophy and nitrox, then it's not really a nitrox course, but I say it's still a NAUI course. Those students represent Naui and Naui instructors. When I see students being rushed through courses with the prime motive being money, it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. When I go on a charter and see 50% of the divers asking how to put their first stage on correctly, it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. And when I'm under water with these "experienced" divers and see octo's and PG's flying all over, horrible buoyancy control, OOA situations, it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I see this all the time, but especially in the tropics. Do I blame the agencies? For the most part. Not trying to start a war here, but am giving a word of caution to the unsuspecting.

As far as George Irvine, he's not an instructor. In fact, I believe he only has two or three certs of any kind, but he knows more about real decompression and physiology than nearly anyone in the sport of diving. Does he know anything you or I (or anyone else) can't learn? Nope. In fact, he's opened his brain to all those interested in learning -- for free.

Take care,

Mike

 

[wishihadgills]

I feel that the AOW course that I will be taking sometime in the near future is just another way for me to go on more epic dives in the future and open the window for different places. DMs and Instructors who I talked to, mentioned that although you can live your whole life diving on an OW certification, you'll get more opps. if you just upgraded to an AOW course. I'm doing so, I just have only 10 dives logged incl. the 4 OW training dives.

 

[neil]

Yooper,
I think your position is well stated, and I agree with much of it. Instead of getting into which agency has the better whatever course, the issue should be: when are the agencies going to tighten the standards on instructor preparation. Or actually, re-tighten the standards. As you say, the quality of the student reflects on the instructor and the agency. As for GUE, it's very well for them to have such high admittance and passing standards (and they do, I checked), but they don't train beginning divers, so again, it's comparing different things, IMO.
Lastly, I can't agree totally that agencies instill "horrible" diving practices from the beginning. Some of that may be a matter of opinion. Instructors just suck sometimes but it's not the agencies. Most agencies have standards that cover sound BASIC diving skills and form. I'm not sure what philosophy has to do with anything in basic open water diving, although I can see the need for more (much more) discipline in the so-called tech activities. If you mean ATTITUDE, then I'm with you 100%.
Finally, may I ask you a personal question? Where does "Lost Yooper" come from? Peace.
Neil

 

[Rick Murchison]

With SSI (Scuba Schools International) one can begin "Specialty" courses right afer OW training. After completing 24 dives and four specialties, an AOW card may be issued. Experience and training.
Rick