What if...? Dive Planning & Trust Me Dives

[xyrandomyx]

These threads have been great. I'm not going to give my answers to all of the questions because mostly I'd be either

a) repeating myself; or
b) giving an answer I've already changed my mind about after reading a better suggestion.

Here's one where I can offer a slightly different answer:

* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?

I'd respond with an exaggerated thumbs up with a little up and down motion. I don't think that can be confused with any other diving sign and I doubt it'd be confused with a surface-appropriate 'cool!' sign. If my buddy was just momentarily confused, I'd imagine he'd quickly be signalling 'no' and 'I'm OK'.

 

[Jewls]

Wow, these questions really got me thinking! I have haven’t experienced many of these scenarios, but they are all real possibilities that could happen. So here it goes, not sure if any of this is the right or the wrong way……and sorry for the super long answers :/

* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?

During the pre-dive I would determine with my buddy a conservative amount of pressure we should dive to and agree to a less conservative pressure amount should one of us want to continue the dive. If we reached our conservative pressure point and my buddy wanted to continue and I felt comfortable I would continue the dive to the less conservative amount agreed upon. Once reached, both buddies would have to turn around. If my buddy refused, I would probably signal ascent and hope my buddy joins me. Once at the surface discuss why they wanted to continue the dive and talk about safety concerns. Either wait for the boat, continue the dive back if possible, or surface swim back to the starting point.

* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?

I am new to diving and at this time honestly have no interest to cave dive, I guess it would be a little bit of fear for me. I would let the DM know during introduction, that I am not comfortable with cave diving and have no cave diving training or experience and that I probably wouldn’t want to join on that dive.

If I were on a reef, with swim throughs, that’s a different opinion. First I would discuss the dive profile with the DM and determine if there any conditions I am not comfortable with. If it is one or two large overhangs on a reef, I would feel comfortable with the swim through. However, if there were multiple, long and small, swim throughs I wouldn’t feel comfortable yet because I worry I might get stuck or caught on something. Once I learn to master my buoyancy and learn more about handling smaller overhead environments, I would probably feel comfortable with the idea and ask the DM to teach me a few things along the way.

* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?

Grab his attention by using the tank banger while remaining at my depth, if he is responsive, signal him to ascend. Once he ascended to my point I would show him my depth gauge and signal to level off here or to multi-level up.

If I couldn’t get his attention, and assuming I wore a dive computer- I would continue to try grabbing his attention, while determining my dive profile and my NDL if I were to dive at this estimated depth. If safe, descend to his level, tap on his shoulder and stop him. Point to SPG and depth, signal to move up and ascend together to the agreed upon level.

If it’s not safe to dive to his depth or I’m not diving with a computer- Seems I have a few different choices here. One, if the DM is close enough, signal him while keeping an eye on my buddy. Point out my buddy and hopefully the DM will go get him. Two, I would keep a close eye on my depth gauge/ air supply and follow him for a few minutes. Once he looked up, I would signal him by probably waving my arms so he knows I’m stressed out. Hopefully he will ascend to my level and I can show him the depth we need to level off at and signal not to go any deeper. Three, if all else fails or is not possible, I would ascend, safety stop and call for help.

* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?

If the conditions don’t seem like I would be comfortable with while on shore or before I’m the boat, I would discuss this with my buddy and see how they feel. At this point he might be able to find another buddy or dive with in a small group. If we arrive at a dive site with conditions I’m not comfortable with I would still discuss this with the buddy. If he wants to dive, he can pair up with a DM, another group or wait with me on the boat / shore.

I had to do this on a dive and the DM (it was just the 2 of us on this dive) was disappointed, and tried to reassure me that we would be ok. However, he was also very understanding of the way I felt and didn’t pressure me to dive. Then he told me something along the lines of….If you ever feel really unsure about it, call the dive because you can react differently to situations, make mistakes and may not be such a good dive buddy.

* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?

Signal to my buddy to find out what’s wrong and see if it’s something I can help with (like supplying air or adjusting their weight belt, BCD or tank, for example). If we can continue the dive after that, we will. If not, I will be happy to surface with my buddy.

 

[Cave Diver]

I'd respond with an exaggerated thumbs up with a little up and down motion. I don't think that can be confused with any other diving sign and I doubt it'd be confused with a surface-appropriate 'cool!' sign. If my buddy was just momentarily confused, I'd imagine he'd quickly be signalling 'no' and 'I'm OK'.

You could also respond by "questioning" the sign. Give the signal for question, then the thumbs up sign, and let him confirm that's what he meant.

The question sign is below:

 

[Cave Diver]

Wow, these questions really got me thinking! I have haven’t experienced many of these scenarios, but they are all real possibilities that could happen. So here it goes, not sure if any of this is the right or the wrong way……and sorry for the super long answers :/

Don't worry about the length of your answers. Long or short, the idea is to get people thinking about scenarios they may not have encountered and illustrate with some real life examples to better prepare you for future dives.

 

[kathydee]

OK, I'll go first...

* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turn around pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?


I'd probably nag them for a few minutes showing them my gauge and giving them the thumbs up. If they still pressed on then I would probably give them the thumb, followed by the finger, and head up. I mean, I'm not going to die just because someone else is some sort of control freak.

Part of a solid dive plan is establishing turn pressure. You should always dive with a buddy who is on the same page. If a DM pushes the dive (which I've experienced). -you should be able to do your own ascent with your partner and not risk your safety. This can also be established with the DM & your partner in the dive brief.

* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?

Freak out! If this happened, and I was 40+ feet above him I don't know the answer to this. My buddy shouldn't leave me so either he's breaking the rules or is in some serious trouble. I'm looking forward to hearing some experienced answers to this.

No need to freak out, you should never be 40+ feet above your buddy . . You should be clear on max depth before the dive starts and have a buddy who respects it. You should be very aware as you reach your max depth and close enough to your partner to gently signal if they even surpass the depth by several feet. I have heard of situations in which a partner experiences a narc and descends without awareness - but this should be avoidable by being attentive when approaching the set depth.

Again, it's situational, if I knew the divemaster well, I'd consider it part of my continuing education. If it were the sorry SOB that dropped a 4 pound weight in my pocket when I was having trouble with my BC, I'd wave it off.

Be careful about following DM's into overhead if you are not properly trained. At some point in my diving I learned DM's are not Gods and some do push their own training limits.

Honor your own training, think for yourself and do not blindly follow. A trusted buddy will wait with you outside the penetration. If you're intrigued with wrecks/caves then seek proper training and please never penetrate deeper than your training permits.

 

[Hepcat62]

Answering assuming I'm NOT "the DM" on the dive.

* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?

I would first ask, using hand signals, if they intend to push the dive beyond the plan. If they do not understand the hand signals (which should not be the case, since we discussed them on the surface), I will use my wet notes to eliminate confusion. If they confirm the intent to push the dive, confirm the length of time and evaluate gas. If gas is insufficient (or I don't know how to evaluate that) or communication just isn't working, thumb the dive. Otherwise, confirm the push and carry on.

* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?

If they had briefed me on it at the surface and it was within the limits of my training, I would have planned gas accordingly and I would have no issue (pending a gas check prior to entering to ensure that I still had the necessary reserves). If it was NOT briefed and/or was NOT within the limits of my training, I would thumb the dive or form a new plan with my teammate.

* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?

Depending on the depth they had hit, my training, and my available gas, I would likely make one attempt to stop them, perhaps somewhat forcefully if I felt they were impaired in some way. If I stop them, remaining gas and an evaluation of their mental state will dictate whether to thumb the dive or not. In no case will I violate the limits of my training such that I would put myself in danger. If that would be required, I will attempt to signal the DM and/or make an expedited ascent to find trained help.

** This is a big part of why I think sites where the hard bottom limits maximum depth are the best choice for relatively inexperienced divers, or dives with new buddies. At a minimum, it (generally) significantly increases the amount of time you would have to notice and correct this type of issue before too much depth is achieved.

* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?

I would politely decline, and suggest breakfast instead - my treat. Discretion is often the better part of valor, as they say. If they persist I let them know that they are more than welcome to dive with somebody else, but I may or may not be waiting on the beach in my drysuit for a rescue if something goes wrong.

* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?

Given that I always discuss command hand signals with new or otherwise unfamiliar buddies, there is no question of what to do. I repeat the hand signal back to them, and begin an ascent. If they have an issue with that, they are more than welcome to discuss it on the surface before the next dive. In the case of relatively shallow shore diving, the next dive could begin about 1 minute after hitting the surface if all is otherwise well.

 

[MarineResearch]

* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?

Forcefully communicate to my buddy that it's time to go. If the DM wants to push onward, give him/her the international salute and leave with my buddy.

* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?

I have no desire to follow a DM that does not have the proper cave/wreck certifications into a cave or wreck beyond anything other than a simple swim through.

FACT: More than 300 divers, including open water instructors, have died in caves just like this one.​

If caves have killed that many instructors, a poor DM wouldn't stand a chance.

* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?

This one really depends on the specific circumstances, but most likely go get them and remind them of the plan. If they go below my MOD at a PPO2 of 1.6, they're on their own.

* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?

Tell them to find another buddy and have a nice dive.

* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?

Head up with my buddy. It doesn't matter to me if the problem is real or imagined. The fact that they want to go is good enough.

 

[Georgiadaybreak]

Dive Planning & Trust Me Dives
* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?Get their attention and jog their memory of our predive brief/dive plans. Give them the thumb. If they wouldn't ascend, I'd ascend safely and inform folks on the boat because somebody may want to suit up in case an emegency search is needed.
*
* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?Get their attention and and cleary say NO. If they continue, I'd wait briefly and continue on with the dive with the group or buddy and ascend and let the boat folks know what an idiot they have for a DM.
*
* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?Well, this happened to me, and thankfully I went to check on her. She was overweighted and was struggling to ascend. Thankfully, I was able to assist her. However, I did check my own air supply first. Had I been low on air, I probably would have ascended to get help on the boat. If a shore dive.....
*
* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?Say choose another buddy and have a safe and fun dive. However, my buddies and I tend to have similar characteristics in diving, so I may point out why I am skipping the dive and question if he/she wants to reconsider.
*
* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?First, I make it a point to know essesntial hand signals before the dive so there is no confusion between thumbing a dive and saying "hey this is fun". Second, I keep 4 basic questions written on sleeve of my suit and/or my arm and I'd just point to the needed question WHAT?, WHICH WAY?, OK?, AIR? But if they are wanting to ascend, even though everything is OKAY, we'd ascend, of course, and I wouldn't harass them at them at the surface about it.

 

[Insta-Gator]

There are multiple sites that explain hand signal communication while diving. I like this one.

http://www.thescubasite.com/Learn-To-Scuba-Dive/scuba-diving-hand-signals

Whichever you choose, be sure to review them with your buddy to avoid confusion.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You could also respond by "questioning" the sign. Give the signal for question, then the thumbs up sign, and let him confirm that's what he meant.

The question sign is below:

This one works pretty good too ... ... and is a lot easier for someone who doesn't understand common hand signals to figure out ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)