What if...? Dive Planning & Trust Me Dives

[DevonDiver]

* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?

Signal 'abort dive' (thumbs up) and ascend alone.

Any diver has the right to abort any dive, at any time, for any reason.

* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?

If this wasn't a planned and prepared element of the dive, I would signal 'Stop' (flat palm) and indicate that the dive should continue outside of the overhead environment.

If the DM/guide/group all entered the overhead environment and I was left alone outside, then I would abort the dive and ascend.

* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?

I would signal to ascend and draw their attention to the depth. If they ignored this, I would assume nitrogen narcosis and intervene for safety to physically lift them shallower.

* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?

I would decline to go diving unless I was 100% comfortable with all elements of the dive.

* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?

I would respect their decision to abort the dive and ascend safely with them; monitoring them closely as they might need assistance, depending on what the issue was.

 

[Buliwyf]

Ha, I didn't even think about narcosis. That makes sense.

 

[Reku]

* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?

I would hope that the DM goes with the buddy and gets him to come back, I would then give the DM my pony bottle and I would turn back alone. DM+buddy would probably need that pony more than me at that point... If the DM was the one that moved forward on their own - I would signal my buddy to turn with me - that guy is on his own. I don't care what the DM says back at the surface - he was stupid for breaking the plan when he knew better. If you break the dive plan you will end up solo. I'm not about that life.

* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?
90% of my dives are caves but if going in the overhead was not part of planning topside - I'm not going in, I probably don't have my overhead gear on anyway... I'm not going anywhere near that if I don't have full gear on. I mean I probably could go in with no lights in a silt out and come back alive but who wants to risk it .... so stupid.

I assume that if we did not talk about it topside - none of the divers will be prepared for it and someone will start up some super crazy silt out. If I'm not purposely making a silt out - I don't want a silt out. I'll wait outside

* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?

Signal them a few times if they respond and don't come up then:

This dive is now a solo dive. Good Luck. If we did not plan on going to 100+ then we are probably not prepared. No Thanks. I'll stay above them though ... just in case.

If they do not respond:

Try to get them to come back up ... might have to swim down there and help them ... it would depend.

* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?

I would have to politely decline his off to die. There's always tomorrow.

* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?

They could of just got excited and accidentally thumbed up however:
You give them the "everything ok? signal" and then if they say no:
If my buddy wants to thumb the dive - we thumb the dive. They don't need a reason. Back to the surface we go!!!!

 

[myself]

The following post is one of a series of threads resulting from a collaboration between [user]Bubbletrubble[/user] and myself.
We have divided the What if...? idea into a series of topics and posted the main thread as a sticky here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...514-what-if-what-do-when-things-go-wrong.html

Please Read The Following Bullet Points Carefully!

• Our intent for this discussion is to get newer divers thinking, not spoon feed them the answers.
• We're going to ask that the more experienced divers don't just jump in with responses to every scenario.
• Instead, we want this to be a two part exercise for newer divers by doing the following:
  • Quote a given scenario and
  • (1) discuss what they would do given the situation
  • (2) talk about how to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.
• Then the more experienced divers can give follow up comments on insights on those answers.

Anyone is encouraged to a post new scenario for discussion, but please follow the instructions above when answering and keep it relevant to the topic.

Dive Planning & Trust Me Dives
* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?
* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?
* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?
* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?
* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?

In the scenario where the DM ignores me having reached turnaround pressure I would try to notify them again and then if they didn't respond I would ascend, preferably with my buddy.

 

[inverse_suit]

What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?

Should have read that a few days ago… This situation happened to me on my first dive in the sea (did my owd in a lake). The DM knew about that. Signaled 100 bar/50 bar as agreed upon before the dive, he just gave the OK-sign and didn‘t make any move towards the line. Signaled 40 to him, still nothing. I saw the line (I was around 10 meters deep) and with reading a lot of answers here and the tiny bit of extra-experience after this dive, I should have started my ascent and leave him.
Not a good feeling after all.

 

[lizardland]

What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?

Should have read that a few days ago… This situation happened to me on my first dive in the sea (did my owd in a lake). The DM knew about that. Signaled 100 bar/50 bar as agreed upon before the dive, he just gave the OK-sign and didn‘t make any move towards the line. Signaled 40 to him, still nothing. I saw the line (I was around 10 meters deep) and with reading a lot of answers here and the tiny bit of extra-experience after this dive, I should have started my ascent and leave him.
Not a good feeling after all.

If I hit my turnaround pressure then I am turning around unless I've got a very good reason not to, buddy or not. One of the basic rules in cave diving that I think should apply to every dive is that anyone has the right to end the dive without having to give a reason and that should be OK with every other member of the team without question. If you are not comfortable continuing then end the dive. Grey areas are where bad things start to happen.

On the other hand, communication needs to be clear. You didn't signal that you wanted to end the dive, you just told the DM how much air you had. Whether or not it was pre-agreed upon to end that dive at a particular pressure is kind of irrelevant. People forget, people don't listen, people hear things different to what you think you told them. The only unambiguous signal in this situation is the one to end the dive.

Don't take that as a criticism of you, it's not mean that way. It was your first post-training dive and the need for good, clear communications sadly doesn't really get emphasised until people start doing more advanced training. So I'm not blaming you. The best advice I can give is when you are communicating underwater keep things as simple as possible and as unambiguous as possible. Don't put responsibility for ending the dive on the DM, your comfort is your decision.

Basically diving is no different to real life. If you don't tell people what you want then you will not get it. If you don't set your limits then they will use their own. If you don't make clear choices then other people will choose for you. Personally I think the dive industry puts too much emphasis on glorifying "dive professionals". There is a very real phenomenon where people will ignore their own best interests because they believe authority figures are infallible. Plenty of "subordinates" have allowed extremely bad things to happen because they didn't want to contradict the guy in command.

 

[inverse_suit]

All good, lizardland, no offense taken! Good points.
I think I was just too much in the „training-mode“ and thought that the dm has the responsibility. Which was like that in the owd-dives but of course does not apply the same way afterwards.
I really just blindly trusted him instead of taking action for myself, signaling that I will end my dive. I‘m used to very safe dives until now, maybe more conservative than usual in the sea because „my“ lake had water temperatures around 14-16 degrees celsius and sight of sometimes under 1 meter.
I learned that I will really stick to my personal limits, learned safety etc. and take the courage to do what feels right for me in a situation like this.
Thanks for your reply! (And sorry for maybe some english-errors, not my mothertongue)

 

[Cthippo]

* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?

Depends on the circumstances. If we are at 120' and with small gas margins, then I would indicate I was leaving and leave. If we are at 30' with 1000 PSI in our tanks, I would probably be willing to hang for a while while monitoring my air.

* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?

Depends on my own independent assessment of the risks involved. Are we takling a swim through with low entanglement hazards and low probablility of siltout? Probably follow them. Are we talking about in and out penetration of a narrow passage with no other exits and no reel? Nah, I'll wait here.

* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?

Depends on how much deeper, and do we have the air and NDL for it?

* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?

Have an alternate plan in my back pocket, or if it is really nasty, just not go.

* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?

Anyone can call a dive for any reason. I am not so wedded to any one dive that I would not be willing to abort.

To me, all of these fall into the category of continual reassessment of the situation and and of the risks involved. Risk assessment begins when you have the thought "I feel like going for a dive" and doesn't end until you are home with all gear washed and put away.