What else could I have done?

[RJP]

Hahahaahaaa... No way. This is from another diver on another thread?

No. Not yet, anyway.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Oh, oh, oh... Dang, I thought you'd read that on another thread.

What you're saying, then, is that the other diver could have had a very different perspective, right? Sorry, I missed that it was a hypothetical point that you were making.

Good thread.

 

[RJP]

"There is no nobility in leaving artifacts on the bottom of the sea, for she is brutally efficient at erasing history forever. The wreck diver is the dead’s only hope of being remembered."

BTW - interesting quote. Who's is it?

Obviously not the SECOND guy to dive on a wreck and find the helm, telegraph, bell, etc all missing. Probably not the family of the dead, I would imagine. Other mariners or servicemen who survived the sinking? Not likely. Ooh...fellow countrymen of those who perished! Nah, that's not it either.

:shocked2:

 

[Deep South Divers]

BTW - interesting quote. Who's is it?

Obviously not the SECOND guy to dive on a wreck and find the helm, telegraph, bell, etc all missing. Probably not the family of the dead, I would imagine. Other mariners or servicemen who survived the sinking? Not likely. Ooh...fellow countrymen of those who perished! Nah, that's not it either.

:shocked2:

Heh. Pretty funny.

I wrote that. It was published in a local magazine called the "Sea Island Scene," and then again in a monthly newsletter put out by the Beaufort and Hilton Head Sportfishing and Dive Club.

I'm flattered that you find the quote "interesting," but I have a feeling that you're not of the same belief.

I believe that a wreck nas a "soul" - a story to tell. And when it offers to an individual something that tells that story, the diver should be honored - and obligated to look after the piece and tell the story so that the "soul" may live through others.

I am not of the belief that "institutions" are somehow more responsible than "individuals," or vice-versa... So I do not believe that one should somehow "forgo" recovery and let someone else do it "for the sake of the people." I have seen many artifacts abused or destroyed by institutions as well as individuals.

That said, if a diver brings something home, I believe it's his responsibility to look after the artifact - just as if he brought home a puppy. In many cases, this requires a lot of work. If the diver's not willing to do that, then he needs to leave the artifact alone.

...So I can find it.

I care less about the letter of the law and more about preventing the ocean from erasing the wreck's "soul." A bit spiritual, perhaps, but that's what I believe.

...And yes, I feel no remorse in profiting from it - especially if I know that the artifact will be respected and displayed so that the story can live on... And I can profit so as to continue to dive and find more artifacts and tell more stories.

...You may or may not agree.

 

[RAD Diver]

:

You don't usually know about current or vis until you actually hit the water.

Besides you stated that wreck trained divers should always carry wreck reels on every wreck dive otherwise they're unprepared.

Which is why I always carry 1 on every wreck dive. And if its a deep 1 I typically carry 3 (sidewinder,safety & jump) plus a spool.

But like I said I'm not wreck trained so maybe I just don't know what I'm doing.

Maybe I'm just over prepared. But it makes me happy.

If I'm in the tropics with 3 ft of vis I picked the wrong vacation spot. But I would still have at least my safety reel. Need something to send up a bag.

 

[idocsteve]

Which is why I always carry 1 on every wreck dive. And if its a deep 1 I typically carry 3 (sidewinder,safety & jump) plus a spool.

But like I said I'm not wreck trained so maybe I just don't know what I'm doing.

Maybe I'm just over prepared. But it makes me happy.

If I'm in the tropics with 3 ft of vis I picked the wrong vacation spot. But I would still have at least my safety reel. Need something to send up a bag.

I took a trip to Florida last month. Well it was a trip to Florida but then we did a cruise to Coz and Caymans.

I brought my wreck reel with me too, but I didn't dive with it. I carry a finger reel and an smb and lift bag on every dive though.

I know what you mean about being overprepared and being happy. I'm the same way but sometimes you can just have too much stuff. I mean...where does it end?

 

[RJP]

...You may or may not agree.

Don't assume too much...I've got my share of china and brass in my collection. Here in NJ if they weren't on my mantle they'd be on someone else's. Or they'd be "erased forever" as you say, knowing that the wreck will deteriorate further and further.

I'm sort of torn, I guess.

Would those things be better off in a museum, if one would have them? Possibly. No...probably.

On the other hand, if you ever have the chance to dive someplace like Truk lagoon or Bikini...and see what's there. See ALL of what's there. Where it fell 70 years ago. Swim through a 30' wide torpedo hole into the lower engine room of a wreck at 165' and see a lightbulb in a lamp...with the filament still intact. See the porcelain dials on the list-meter on the Rio de Janeiro point hard to port...at an improbably 90deg angle. See the wrenches hanging neatly in their rack in the machine shop of a wreck that is missing the entire 1/3 of the ship. And then imagine it was all gone, on a thousand mantles and curio cabinets in NJ and SC and Cleveland and London and Tokyo and Sydney etc, etc, etc. After doing those dives, its tough to imagine depriving the next guy of having the same experience.

 

[RAD Diver]

I took a trip to Florida last month. Well it was a trip to Florida but then we did a cruise to Coz and Caymans.

I brought my wreck reel with me too, but I didn't dive with it. I carry a finger reel and an smb and lift bag on every dive though.

I know what you mean about being overprepared and being happy. I'm the same way but sometimes you can just have too much stuff. I mean...where does it end?

I will let you know after next weekend, I'm doing my Advanced Trimix class.

Bottles, bottles & more bottles.

And a good friend of mine Capt. JT Capt JT's Wreck Diving Site - Diving Hatteras NC and Virginia Beach VA hates seeing too much stuff on any diver. And he dives 300fsw+ so he knows just what you need, no more no less.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Don't assume too much...I've got my share of china and brass in my collection. Here in NJ if they weren't on my mantle they'd be on someone else's. Or they'd be "erased forever" as you say, knowing that the wreck will deteriorate further and further.

I'm sort of torn, I guess.

Would those things be better off in a museum, if one would have them? Possibly. No...probably.

On the other hand, if you ever have the chance to dive someplace like Truk lagoon or Bikini...and see what's there. See ALL of what's there. Where it fell 70 years ago. Swim through a 30' wide torpedo hole into the lower engine room of a wreck at 165' and see a lightbulb in a lamp...with the filament still intact. See the porcelain dials on the list-meter on the Rio de Janeiro point hard to port...at an improbably 90deg angle. See the wrenches hanging neatly in their rack in the machine shop of a wreck that is missing the entire 1/3 of the ship. And then imagine it was all gone, on a thousand mantles and curio cabinets in NJ and SC and Cleveland and London and Tokyo and Sydney etc, etc, etc. After doing those dives, its tough to imagine depriving the next guy of having the same experience.

Yeah, great point. But see, there is no shortage of the story when it comes to Truk or Bikini... The story is told anyway. What's the point of retreiving an artifact from there? There is no soul to save - no additional story to tell. The story is best told if the artifacts are left there.

My experience with regards to institutions isn't the same as yours. I have found that, when an artifact is in a personal collection, it tends to get taken care of much better than it does in an institution's collection, especially when it's only one of hundreds or thousands of artifacts... Especially if it's not one of the artifacts that the institution considers to be the "most prized."

...But overall, it sounds like you've put some thought into this, and it sounds like you've got a bit of the bretheren in ya... Parle', parle', parle'.

The bottle I'm holding in my avatar to the left I found at the bottom of one of our local rivers. It's a South Carolina dispensary bottle, valued at about $1200. I find dozens of these every year - and no, I don't go looking for the "rightful owner" before hocking them on eBay. And no, I don't feel guilty about it.

I might not even tell the State that I found them. I'm a rebel.