What do you guys think of this tank/valve combo?

[Sonic04GT]

Thanks alot for all of the information.

Mike, do you recommend going with a 3500psi valve or will I be just fine with the 3442 modular DIN/Yoke?

I am definitely going with an HP100. My LDS emailed me back saying that they only sell tanks with the modular DIN/Yoke valve already installed. I am waiting on an additional reply to see if they carry anything other than the Faber Blue Steel FX100s. I'll see what happens when it comes time to re-deploy back to the states later this year and decide then whether I want to order a Worthington on the internet or just get a Blue Steel at my LDS (assuming that's all they carry).

I'll be stationed in Central Texas when I return and will primarily be doing lake/shore dives and my buddy says there's a fill station nearby so I'll probably just buy the one tank while I'm home in FL and order an additional one online or somewhere in Texas later on down the line since I can get the one refilled while on surface interval.

How much weight can I drop from my BC going from an AL80 to an HP100? I currently dive 10lbs; 3lbs in the left/right pockets and 2lbs in each rear trim pocket. I will be switching from a bathing suit to a 3mm wetsuit also. Going to be diving primarily fresh as opposed to salt as well now that I think about it. So many variants haha

 

[mike_s]

Thanks alot for all of the information.

Mike, do you recommend going with a 3500psi valve or will I be just fine with the 3442 modular DIN/Yoke?

That all depends on what tank you get.

If you get a 3500psi tank, then you need a 3500psi valve, without exception.

If you only get a 3442psi tank, then definately get the "convertible valve" that is both DIN/Yoke. Why? It's just more versatile. That way it can be used with either DIN or Yoke regs and is more attractive to a potential buyer if you want to sell it later...

(just my opinion...)

I am definitely going with an HP100. My LDS emailed me back saying that they only sell tanks with the modular DIN/Yoke valve already installed. I am waiting on an additional reply to see if they carry anything other than the Faber Blue Steel FX100s. I'll see what happens when it comes time to re-deploy back to the states later this year and decide then whether I want to order a Worthington on the internet or just get a Blue Steel at my LDS (assuming that's all they carry).

I'd ask also what type valve they come with, not just the tank specs....

My advice on Faber verses Worthington, is all based on price.

A Worthington HP100 (Model X7-100) runs MAP price of $345.

A Faber FX-100 typically runs about $349 (regular price).



**IF** the Worthington and Faber are the same price at the shops, I'd go for the Worthington tanks, hands down... The worthington tanks have a better finish (triple galvanized) and typically come with the better valve (Thermo or XS Scuba valve). The FX100 will come with a painted finish and typically a Blue Steel branded valve.

However, often Faber / Blue Steel will run deals that sell Faber tanks with large markdowns, often if they are about a year into their initial hydro. You'll see these often (every 3-4 months) on Divers Direct emails. The FX100 is thee most typical tank I've seen them advertise lower. usually purchase price on these is $245 to $259 (and you can usually figure out some other discount code to use or get free shipping).

Seeing how you could save $200 on two tanks, I'd suggest the Fabers if you get them on sale. But if you can't, then get the Worthingtons. (or if money isn't a concern).

But overall I think you'll find most people will prefer the Worthington and they seem to be the more dominant tank in the marketplace.

How much weight can I drop from my BC going from an AL80 to an HP100? I currently dive 10lbs; 3lbs in the left/right pockets and 2lbs in each rear trim pocket. I will be switching from a bathing suit to a 3mm wetsuit also. Going to be diving primarily fresh as opposed to salt as well now that I think about it. So many variants haha

You'll drop 4 to 6 pounds switching from an AL80 to a HP100. But different factors will affect your buoyancy, such as wetsuit, drysuit, etc.


Hope all this helps.

Mike

 

[Sonic04GT]

That all depends on what tank you get.

If you get a 3500psi tank, then you need a 3500psi valve, without exception.

If you only get a 3442psi tank, then definately get the "convertible valve" that is both DIN/Yoke. Why? It's just more versatile. That way it can be used with either DIN or Yoke regs and is more attractive to a potential buyer if you want to sell it later...

(just my opinion...)





I'd ask also what type valve they come with, not just the tank specs....

My advice on Faber verses Worthington, is all based on price.

A Worthington HP100 (Model X7-100) runs MAP price of $345.

A Faber FX-100 typically runs about $349 (regular price).



**IF** the Worthington and Faber are the same price at the shops, I'd go for the Worthington tanks, hands down... The worthington tanks have a better finish (triple galvanized) and typically come with the better valve (Thermo or XS Scuba valve). The FX100 will come with a painted finish and typically a Blue Steel branded valve.

However, often Faber / Blue Steel will run deals that sell Faber tanks with large markdowns, often if they are about a year into their initial hydro. You'll see these often (every 3-4 months) on Divers Direct emails. The FX100 is thee most typical tank I've seen them advertise lower. usually purchase price on these is $245 to $259 (and you can usually figure out some other discount code to use or get free shipping).

Seeing how you could save $200 on two tanks, I'd suggest the Fabers if you get them on sale. But if you can't, then get the Worthingtons. (or if money isn't a concern).

But overall I think you'll find most people will prefer the Worthington and they seem to be the more dominant tank in the marketplace.




You'll drop 4 to 6 pounds switching from an AL80 to a HP100. But different factors will affect your buoyancy, such as wetsuit, drysuit, etc.


Hope all this helps.

Mike

Mike,

Thanks again for the detailed reply. I meant a 3500psi valve on a 3442psi tank, and it looks like I'll be sticking with the modular 3442. I wrote Divers Direct an email asking what brand of valves they use in their tanks. The only steel tanks they carry are the Blue Steel.

I'll keep my eyes open for a change in price. I won't be back in the states until August but there's alot of stuff I want to do so I'm researching ahead. I only intend on buying one tank right now but if I can find a sale that good I'll more than likely get 2 at that time. No biggie if I have to get it hydro'd a few months later. If I can't find them at a decent price I'll probably just order a Worthington online.

Chris

 

[mike_s]

Mike,

Thanks again for the detailed reply. I meant a 3500psi valve on a 3442psi tank, and it looks like I'll be sticking with the modular 3442.

I see no real advantage to a 3500psi valve on a 3442 tank. (unless it's a doubles manifold, but that's on there for a different reason)..... but maybe someone else can reply

I wrote Divers Direct an email asking what brand of valves they use in their tanks. The only steel tanks they carry are the Blue Steel.

I got my Faber FX-100's from Divers Direct (when they were on sale) and they came with a Blue Steel branded valve. (Their valves are made by San-o-sub). I don't know if they've changed.

Some shops sell them with Thermo valves though for example. (I don't know if this an option when they order them from the distributor, or do they just order them w/o a valve and then put their own Thermo Valves on them when they come in).

I'll keep my eyes open for a change in price. I won't be back in the states until August but there's alot of stuff I want to do so I'm researching ahead. I only intend on buying one tank right now but if I can find a sale that good I'll more than likely get 2 at that time. No biggie if I have to get it hydro'd a few months later. If I can't find them at a decent price I'll probably just order a Worthington online.

Chris

Most folks want at least two tanks because most boat trips are two tank outings.... but you can always rent one if needed also. just after owning tanks, renting them is a pain in the ass.

I wouldn't get concerned about the hydro being one year older... I just wanted to tell you that in disclosure, because Divers Direct does NOT openly advertise that. (yet they told me when I asked them).

A hydro typically costs about $25 bucks at most shops and you have it done every five years.... so loosing that "year of extra available hydro" in reality isn't setting you back more than $5 bucks (or $10 tops for shops that charge more). The lower tank price mroe than makes up for this.

If you order one, just have a LDS you trust give it a visual inspection regardless if it comes with a VIS sticker on it.... tanks have come in from various manufacturers that are FILTHY inside. Not worth breahting crap, oil residue, or dust just to save $10 bucks.

 

[Sonic04GT]

I see no real advantage to a 3500psi valve on a 3442 tank. (unless it's a doubles manifold, but that's on there for a different reason)..... but maybe someone else can reply



I got my Faber FX-100's from Divers Direct (when they were on sale) and they came with a Blue Steel branded valve. (Their valves are made by San-o-sub). I don't know if they've changed.

Some shops sell them with Thermo valves though for example. (I don't know if this an option when they order them from the distributor, or do they just order them w/o a valve and then put their own Thermo Valves on them when they come in).






Most folks want at least two tanks because most boat trips are two tank outings.... but you can always rent one if needed also. just after owning tanks, renting them is a pain in the ass.

I wouldn't get concerned about the hydro being one year older... I just wanted to tell you that in disclosure, because Divers Direct does NOT openly advertise that. (yet they told me when I asked them).

A hydro typically costs about $25 bucks at most shops and you have it done every five years.... so loosing that "year of extra available hydro" in reality isn't setting you back more than $5 bucks (or $10 tops for shops that charge more). The lower tank price mroe than makes up for this.

If you order one, just have a LDS you trust give it a visual inspection regardless if it comes with a VIS sticker on it.... tanks have come in from various manufacturers that are FILTHY inside. Not worth breahting crap, oil residue, or dust just to save $10 bucks.

Are the Blue Steel valves any good? I thought hydro testing had to be done annually. If that's the case then I'm not concerned at all. I'll just stick to a visual inspection as you mentioned and call it a day.

 

[mike_s]

Are the Blue Steel valves any good?

They are good, but I don't like them as much as I do the Thermo Valves. The XS Scuba valves seem to be just like the Thermo valves with a few minor improvements.

But I haven't run out and paid $100 bucks to swap out two valves either... so the Blue Steel valves aren't that bad. (just if I had a choice for the same money, then I'd go with Thermo or XS Scuba valves... just my preference).

I thought hydro testing had to be done annually. If that's the case then I'm not concerned at all. I'll just stick to a visual inspection as you mentioned and call it a day.

DOT requirements state that pressure cylinders have to be hydrostatically tested every 5 years.

Yearly visual inspections are not DOT required (except on 6351T alloy tanks), but it's self "imposed" by the dive industry.

 

[rstofer]

i'm guessing that you will be using Nitrox sooner or later.

Most new tanks come 'Nitrox Ready' which means they are just barely clean enough for preblended Nitrox (usually called 'banked' Nitrox). Most shops that do partial pressure blending (they partially fill the tank with pure oxygen before adding air) will probably want to check and perhaps oxygen clean a tank they didn't sell new.

This is all to your advantage. You get a look at the interior before you breathe from the tank.

You can probably save a little money by buying the tank new directly from a shop where you will be getting Nitrox fills. Particularly a shop that does partial pressure blending. See what it will take to have your LDS special order the tank you want. If you really want Worthington (all of mine are), then get them.

Here's the deal with 3442 PSI. If the tank and valve was rated for 3500 PSI, it could not be legally sold with a yoke style valve or a valve that could be converted to yoke. So the scuba industry backed off from 3500 all the way down to 3442 so that yokes were still legal.

That doesn't mean that every regulator you pick up will have a yoke rated for 3500 psi (the regulator folks just rounded up). You will have a bit of a dilemma if you want to use a 3000 psi rated yoke on a 3442 filled tank. You could dump some of the air or take the chance that the yoke is stronger than the factory rating. Or, you could scrap the wimpy yoke and convert the regulator to DIN. You may, or may not, be able to get a 3500 psi yoke for an older regulator.

Richard

 

[Sonic04GT]

I have a DIN regulator so I'm not too concerned about that 3442 works fine for me though in order to keep the DIN/Yoke valve.

I'll have to talk to Diver's Direct when I go to look at tanks but probably end up just ordering a Worthington so that it's on my door step when I get home, depending on what kind of prices I can find.

Divers Direct says their valves are EZ-Lock. Never heard of it.

 

[mike_s]

Divers Direct says their valves are EZ-Lock. Never heard of it.

Never heard of them.... Google doesn't provide good results either...


maybe Welcome to ELLock.com, but I can't be sure as they block that site at work and I can't access it. will try to check tonight.


EDIT: one thing about Thermo Valves, you can order rebuild kits for those valves from about any shop out there.... As for EZ-Lock, hard to order a rebuilt kit if you've never heard of them before....

 

[Sonic04GT]

Never heard of them.... Google doesn't provide good results either...


maybe Welcome to ELLock.com, but I can't be sure as they block that site at work and I can't access it. will try to check tonight.


EDIT: one thing about Thermo Valves, you can order rebuild kits for those valves from about any shop out there.... As for EZ-Lock, hard to order a rebuilt kit if you've never heard of them before....

I replied asking for a link to the manufacturer site. The link you provided does show an EZ Tex valve but I can't get the description page to load here at work.

Probably end up just getting a Worthington online with a Thermo or XS.

EDIT:

EZ Tex-2 Ez Tex-3 Coming Soon...
200 BAR DIN/K Type Outlet 300 BAR DIN/K Type Outlet
3/4-14 NPSM Inlet 3/4-14 NPSM Inlet
SERVICE PRESSURES SERVICE PRESSURES
2400-3442 psi 2400-3442 psi
20.7 - 22.5 MPa 20.7 - 22.5 MPa

Retail: $52.00
Please Contact Us for Wholesale Pricing

Nitrox Compatible 40% (the recreational limits of nitrox)
Modern Rubberized - Grip hand-wheel
Compatible with both standard and DIN regulators Yoke insert included
Valve Thread Size: 3/4" - 14 NPSM
Available for 2400, 3000, 3300 or 3442 psi cylinders
FULL MANUFACTURER'S WARRANTY

Ez Tex standalone and modular SCUBA tank valve. All SCUBA valves are polished triple-bright chrome-plated brass for maximum protection and long-lasting beauty in salt water environments. During the manufacturing process, every valve is tested under high pressure to check for leaks and ease-of-operation. All valves and parts include a one-year limited warranty against defects in materials and workmanship.

The outlet on the K valve is designed with twin dimples in the bottom section of the o-ring keeper. This helps to avoid o-ring blowout when disconnecting your first stage regulator. The K type outlet is used on valves with service pressures up to 230 Bar.

All scuba valves are triple bright chrome plated for maximum protection and long lasting beauty in salt water environments. The new Easy Grip handwheel is made from soft rubber formed around a durable stainless steel insert. The stainless steel insert insures positive long lasting life. The large soft rubber ribs make it easy to open or close the valve even while wearing dive gloves.

All scuba valves come with a one piece safety plug assembly which eliminates the possibility of mismatched components and can be used on all prior versions of scuba valves. This greatly reduces the likelihood of accidental "double disking" of the safety assembly and protects the integrity of your diving cylinder. The safety device is shielded by the valve body to avoid damage during transportation or while diving.

All scuba valves come with a high pressure plug & seat assembly manufactured from a high tensile brass alloy and the threaded area is coated with Teflon. Both the high tensile brass and the Teflon coating insure a lube less, smooth operation and prolongs the life of your valve! During the manufacturing process every valve is pressure tested under high pressure to test for leaks and ease of operation at operating pressures.

All valves are manufactured to help lifting easier by using a longer handle.

The K-valve is by far the most common valve on SCUBA cylinders in the U.S. and nearby areas, such as the Caribbean. The regulator first stage attaches to this valve using a yoke A-clamp fitting, and there is a sealing O-ring that is held in the face of the valve outlet where it mates with the regulator. Although this system has been in use a long time, it is considered by many to be somewhat unreliable.
The Deutsches Institut Für Normung (DIN) is a German standards setting organization similar to our American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and Compressed Gas Association (CGA). DIN 477 is a specification that recommends cylinder valve outlet and connector designs for specific types of gases and pressures based upon safety considerations. These various designs have deliberate incompatibilities to preclude the possibility of errors when handling different types of compressed gases at differing working pressures. The two valve outlets and connectors of interest for divers are the DIN 477 No. 13 and the DIN 477 No. 56 (formerly No. 50), both designated for use with compressed air. The DIN 477 valve and regulator fittings are most widely used outside the U.S. The regulator first stage DIN connector is a male screw type, and instead of clamping on to the outside of the valve as does the yoke, it screws directly into the female DIN outlet of the valve. The sealing O-ring is held in the end of the regulator connector rather than in the face of the outlet. The DIN 477 system, with it's captured o-ring design, has proven to be very reliable for use with SCUBA.

Outlet/Connector #13 is from DIN 477 part 1 - for cylinders with test pressure ratings up to 300 bar and is commonly referred to in the SCUBA industry by the slang term "200 bar", probably because most cylinders with 300 bar test pressures have working pressures in the 200 bar range. Outlet/Connector #56 is from DIN 477 part 5 - for cylinders with test pressure ratings up to 450 bar and is commonly referred to in the SCUBA industry by the slang term "300 bar". The two designs are nearly identical, but the #56 valve outlet is deliberately deeper so the shorter #13 connector will not be long enough to seat properly. This is a safety feature to prevent connecting a low pressure device to a high pressure supply. It's important to understand that the "200 bar" or "300 bar" descriptions are just slang terms that have nothing to do with the pressure ratings of the outlets and connectors themselves!

SCUBA VALVE REBUILT KIT

Compatible with Thermo, Sherwood, Ez Tex-2, and VX5000. Available for 3000psi, 3300psi and 3442psi valves.
Kit Includes 11 Parts:

Qty. Part# Number Description
1 EZ51 1 Stem Nut
1 EZ52 2 S.S. Spring
1 EZ54 4 Nylon Washer
1 EZ55 5 Bonnet Nut
2 EZ56 6 Copper Gasket
1 EZ57 7 Teflon Gasket
1 JV010 8 Viton O-Ring
1 EZ59 9 Stem
1 EZ60 10 Seat Assembly
1 EZ62 12 Burst Disk Assembled- 3000psi, 3300psi, 3442psi