What Did You Self-Teach Yourself?

[DevonDiver]

SOME skills, sure. But can you tell me how I am endangering myself or others by learning the frog kick on my own? You can't bundle all skills together like that, it's crazy.

I wasn't aware there was a 'Frog kick' C-Card? lol

In the context of 'courses'....the Frog kick is taught as one option of propulsion for environments where restricted space, overhead environment and high silt may cause extreme danger due to silt-out and loss of direction (exit).

In this context...the skill becomes very different to self-teaching yourself in a cosy reef environment. The skill requires deft movements, control and judgement.

It is also part of a greater 'skill'...choosing the optimum propulsion method for any given environment/situation. The over-arching skill being...to propel yourself through an environment without causing danger via silt out.

If, as a recreational diver, you want to watch some you-tube of people frog-kicking...and then start replicating that on your reef dives...then that is fine. Many people enjoy frog kick as a leisurely way to tour a reef.

But does that mean you can 'Frog kick'...in the situations that the skill was intended to be used in? Are you now an expert 'Frog-kicker'?

 

[DevonDiver]

Originally Posted by DevonDiver
"As I grew more experienced, I learnt that theory was safe to assimilate by myself, but skills need to be taught."

Who taught the first teacher?

the K

People who pioneered what we do now....and who took chances (and sometimes paid the penalties) for the knowledge that they gained and then passed on.

Why "self-pioneer" something that already exists as common knowledge...and take those risks....when you can simply pay an experienced professional to pass them on to you?

 

[The Kraken]

Well, to address my answer in my first post, specifically, I was completely aware of the inherent buouancy difference characteristics between wet suits and dry suits.

Having had basic physics in both high school and college, I was aware of how an air bubble would act within a confined, flexible bladder (that's basically what a dry suit is) at depth.

I was aware of how dump valves work and how to adjust them.

I knew how a bubble migrates from the low end of a tube to the high end (ie a level).

Taking these basics of physics and implementing a bit of due dilligence and caution, I elected to learn how to manage a dry suit in shallow water (< 20') so that any runaway ascent, if it did occur, would not present a serious issue.

One can teach objective things, but subjective things must, in my opinion be learned, or to use another term, self-taught.

And instructor can tell me that there is an air bubble in a dry suit and one must learn to manage it. It is that learning, self-teaching, that I elected to do on my own.

the K

 

[DevonDiver]

Taking these basics of physics and implementing a bit of due dilligence and caution, I elected to learn how to manage a dry suit in shallow water (< 20') so that any runaway ascent, if it did occur, would not present a serious issue.

In my experience...a runaway ascent with 'feet-up' buoyancy is always a serious issue.

ok, so you are in shallow water...so negated risk of DCS.

ok, so you know not to hold your breath on ascent (although there is an increased risk you will, because you are task focused on a new skill and are not being supervised). :depressed::depressed:

ok, so you rise to the surface and get trapped there with your feet rising from the water...your lower torso is trapped submerged... you drop your reg in the struggle to right yourself....you can't figure a solution in the seconds available to you....you drown, inverted at the surface.

And instructor can tell me that there is an air bubble in a dry suit and one must learn to manage it. It is that learning, self-teaching, that I elected to do on my own.

An instructor WON'T tell you that you must learn to manage it. He will SHOW you how to manage it. He will also SHOW you where the dangers are...and the stuff not written in the books...or by the 'forum super-divers'...and he will make sure you are mentally and physically equipped to utilise that equipment...and continue practicing with it effectively after the course ends...

Drysuits and DSMBs are the single biggest cause of uncontrolled ascents...and these (according to UK figures) make up a disturbingly large proportion of DCS incidents.

When you are ignorant of the risks, it is easy to think you have the answer to the question "what could possibly go wrong?".

Good training should educate you of those risks....and provide you with pre-rehearsed solutions, that mean you don't need to problem solve when death is seconds away.

What you describe is 'practice'. Practice on you own.... but only AFTER you know WHAT to practice and WHY.

 

[TSandM]

You can teach yourself a lot of things. The value of instruction is that the learning period is hopefully shorter and more efficient, and when you're done learning, there won't be holes in your understanding that you aren't aware of.

For me, taking classes works. I like to have stuff presented in an organized way, and have someone of whom to ask questions, and I like feedback on skills. I self-teach small things or things where no class is available, like servicing inflators and (soon) regulators. But I'll always take instruction from a good quality teacher over self-learning.

 

[DevonDiver]

The value of instruction is that the learning period is hopefully shorter and more efficient, and when you're done learning, there won't be holes in your understanding that you aren't aware of.

My point exactly

Having holes in your understanding...that you are unaware of...is an incident waiting to happen.

It's what you DON'T know that hurts you.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

In my experience...a runaway ascent with 'feet-up' buoyancy is always a serious issue.

ok, so you are in shallow water...so negated risk of DCS.

ok, so you know not to hold your breath on ascent (although there is an increased risk you will, because you are task focused on a new skill and are not being supervised). :depressed::depressed:

ok, so you rise to the surface and get trapped there with your feet rising from the water...your lower torso is trapped submerged... you drop your reg in the struggle to right yourself....you can't figure a solution in the seconds available to you....you drown, inverted at the surface.

Which is exactly why I tell divers not to take a drysuit course. Instructors insist on teaching the use of the drysuit for buoyancy. There is no reason to have air in your suit in shallow water, especially enough to cause you to invert to a feet up position. Using your BC solves that problem, and a diver should already be familiar with their BC if they are under water.

 

[Matt S.]

I wasn't aware there was a 'Frog kick' C-Card? lol

In the context of 'courses'....the Frog kick is taught as one option of propulsion for environments where restricted space, overhead environment and high silt may cause extreme danger due to silt-out and loss of direction (exit).

In this context...the skill becomes very different to self-teaching yourself in a cosy reef environment. The skill requires deft movements, control and judgement.

It is also part of a greater 'skill'...choosing the optimum propulsion method for any given environment/situation. The over-arching skill being...to propel yourself through an environment without causing danger via silt out.

If, as a recreational diver, you want to watch some you-tube of people frog-kicking...and then start replicating that on your reef dives...then that is fine. Many people enjoy frog kick as a leisurely way to tour a reef.

But does that mean you can 'Frog kick'...in the situations that the skill was intended to be used in? Are you now an expert 'Frog-kicker'?

You said that no skill should be self-taught ever, and now you are backing up and saying, well, if it's safe to do it, go ahead. So which is it? Am I going to kill someone in OW with my self-taught frog kick? That was the original implication.

And any diver who goes into a situation where silt is a life and death problem DOES need training, in a lot of things beyond a kick.

I also think that any diver who runs out of air or NDL taking pictures was an accident waiting to happen anyway, and a class cannot teach you common sense.

I'll take classes for things that really matter, like rescue skills, not for taking pictures or identifying fish. If you have to pull my lifeless body out of the silty water, camera clutched in my dead hand, you are welcome to say "I told you so."

 

[DiverLS]

Dry suit. I don't think anyone had a course when I started diving dry in 89
Boat diving - Ditto
bouancy - ditto

But now that I have a techie BF I started my cavern class. Yep - my number of cards is going to double real quickly.

 

[captain]

How I taught myself to dive and many other things.

As a young boy in the early 1950's I was fascinated by anything related to water. Every summer my parents would spend a week at the beach and I always had my kiddie mask and fins swimming around in the surf.

My brother who was 15 years older than me had built a swimming pool at his home in about 1955. I had graduated from my kiddy mask and fins to a real Squale mask, snorkel and Churchill fins and I would spend hours in the pool and the local lake with them.
In 1957 at age 13 I convinced my parents to let me buy a tank and regulator and I bought a Voit two hose regulator (single hose regulator were a fairly new invention at the time and the two hose was considered the best) and a Voit tank with a webbing harness with my odd job money. I spent many more hours in the pool practicing clearing hoses and mask, doing ditch and don, all the things in the instruction manual including learning how to use the Navy tables.

From the pool I went to the lake which was a couple of miles from home. It was great to be diving in a real body of water even if visibility was only 6 or 8 feet on the best days and only 15 feet deep but it was real diving not a pool.

All of this was done solo as there were no other dives around.

From there I went on to teach myself to use a BC when they became available, to build underwater camera housings, to take underwater photos and movies, to repair regulators and valves, dry suit use, run and maintain a compressor, fill tanks, to use a dive computer, etc.

I finally took a certification course 13 years after I began diving to be able to go on charters.

And I still have and dive that Voit regulator and tank.