Kristi@CCDS
Contributor
Following, because I am always open to new ideas to improve our store and service. I love some of the suggestions here. Great thread topic!
What can your LDS do to bring in more women divers?
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BabyDuck
Contributor
kristi, we've talked about the 'black t shirts with skulls and tits' before.
I would love to be able to buy or even just order all kinds of fun stuff from scarves to baby-sized force fins to clownfish-decorated water bottles. This stuff is expensive to stock but maybe it could be on order. I saw a catalog that had all this stuff but it was only to sale to retailers. Be that retailer!
In the age on online stores and selection, you need to have a "if we don't have it I will order it" attitude. Perhaps this is easier because the very few shops I've known here in Scandinavia were not affiliated with any set brand, often not even with any set training agency (most often with no training agency - selling just gear, not training).
I HATE it when I know exactly what I want and a salesman keeps trying to sell me something else; I will listen to alternative ideas, but the sales guy then needs to listen to "no" if that's still the answer. Actually this is a very big reason I shop online for many kinds of products, or in a city and not my local town: I don't like being pressured to select only something they have when they don't have a whole lot & I want something different.
In the age on online stores and selection, you need to have a "if we don't have it I will order it" attitude. Perhaps this is easier because the very few shops I've known here in Scandinavia were not affiliated with any set brand, often not even with any set training agency (most often with no training agency - selling just gear, not training).
I HATE it when I know exactly what I want and a salesman keeps trying to sell me something else; I will listen to alternative ideas, but the sales guy then needs to listen to "no" if that's still the answer. Actually this is a very big reason I shop online for many kinds of products, or in a city and not my local town: I don't like being pressured to select only something they have when they don't have a whole lot & I want something different.
beepbird
Contributor
As a diver for 20 yrs, the family run store is so much more approachable. I was not intimidated when I did my training. I started as vacation diver who was only going to rent gear, but I still needed the basics and a wetsuit. As a beginner I was intimidated by the expensive techie stuff like wing and backplates. After 1500 dives, I still find it interesting when the guys working in a shop look you over and determine how to speak to you. I am 5'2" and wear nice clothes & usually heels when bringing a tank in for refill. If the men offer to help me with my tank, hey I'm all for it, it saves my back and it boosts their ego. The sexual harassment training would go far as I see Scuba in 2 camps: one of the testosterone driven hunter & adrenalin seeker and two, the rest of the folks who are interested in marine life. I think offering experience and forums like this help a buyer make wise choices. I lurked on Scubaboard for the longest time in learning what would fit my needs. I also have made some bad purchasing decisions based on rushed needs. Having a pool onsite helps to try on gear, but one dive shop allowed me to rent a BC before I purchased.
Having social events or an active dive club helps breakdown barriers between people. Since the Southern California mega store is no longer an entity. My favorite stores are the ones that know the characteristics of the various manufacturers. I won't buy Pinnacle wetsuits because I know their torso lengths are way too long. If they can suggest another brand, that's golden! Or if they have tips for easier and more comfortable diving, then I'm going to stick around to learn more. My gear is pink, purple, and blue but I'm not trying to be one of the boys to gain respect.
Dive stores are for dive gear. Tchotchkes take up counter space at the dive shop and my home. I have way too many T-shirts from dive locations, I don't need one from a manufacturer.
Having social events or an active dive club helps breakdown barriers between people. Since the Southern California mega store is no longer an entity. My favorite stores are the ones that know the characteristics of the various manufacturers. I won't buy Pinnacle wetsuits because I know their torso lengths are way too long. If they can suggest another brand, that's golden! Or if they have tips for easier and more comfortable diving, then I'm going to stick around to learn more. My gear is pink, purple, and blue but I'm not trying to be one of the boys to gain respect.
Dive stores are for dive gear. Tchotchkes take up counter space at the dive shop and my home. I have way too many T-shirts from dive locations, I don't need one from a manufacturer.
Beepbird, ehat wetsuit fo you own? I'm 5'3" or at least I used to be and have always found there's too much material in the torso of all wetsuits I've ever tried. TIA
outofofficebrb
HARRO HUNNAYYY
Hi, all. What a great thread and some great answers after going through 9 pages. I think everyone else has pretty much covered most sentiments that I could think of. I did want to offer a different perspective...I have been in the retail business since I could remember, both at the store front level and in corporate which is where I am now. I'm a buyer for a large local multi-store outdoor specialty retailer so my thoughts are rooted from this perspective and how our company has managed to be so successful and I think is relevant to all dive shops, not just those trying to appeal to more women.
Selection/Inventory - This is mostly directly related to my job -- constantly thinking about assortment. Stocking items while keeping in mind some things: for those that are "brand loyal", price points, and/or thinking about your end consumer. Think of each type of item in your inventory having "categories". some examples are: performance vs. recreational in features or price. For wetsuits, this could be full, shorties, thicknesses -- for different body types. Maybe carrying one full zip 5mm wetsuit for women isn't enough -- know the fit and carry something that fits differently to accommodate that, especially if it comes in special sizing. Fin colors -- have an option for someone who wants to be seen - high vis - and have an option for someone who wants to go all black while having different stiffnesses and/or brands.
The list is endless but I hope you get the idea. I think curating the selection is important here. You don't have to go wide with your inventory in all things. While you probably will want more variety of BCs and wetsuits, you probably only need one brand or option of retractable gear console or for items that are not so size and color dependent with the different SKUs. Oh, and size ratios--get your size ratios right. Don't ever be out of the core sizes.
The People - Having people on staff who know what they're talking about or have "been there" makes a difference. People who have used the products, not just read about reviews or heard feedback from people. Active in the dive community or who likes to travel and dive, or has a specialty in something in the shop that they can wax poetic about in their sleep. People will want to come in and will enjoy talking with them for their experiences, advice, etc. Be honest. Don't be pushy. People will open their wallets when they appreciate this. Being accommodating and not going by the book all the time. Flexibility.
Training....Maybe an employee knows their regulators and regulator technology well but not much about women's fits on wetsuits. While they can help ring people up and help get sizes, being able to talk about the product is important and not just in a superficial way. Cross train people.
As for gender...While a male shop owner who has helped many woman can report that 80% of women like this particular model better, I still think it's different when a woman says she has tried something, finds this works well or doesn't work well, and has heard from other women XYZ. I think of it almost like going to a gyno appointment and a man not ever really understanding what cramps feel like outside of what he has read in the medical books or learned in school. Not exactly the same, but that's the example I could think of.
The Store I think having a place where people can gather for events is important. A community feel. Maybe have clinics that introduce people to various types of diving from all levels such as Discover/OW to tech. Have clinics/classes on how to do basic gear repair or maintenance, or if you have a pool (just one example) how to use reels and SMBs/sausages correctly and safely. Photography classes.. There are so many endless topics you could touch upon. If they buy something during those clinics, they get X % off. Bring manufacturers out for demos during a dive weekend nearby. Raffle off gift cards, give special discounts that weekend, etc. Use co-op funds to have vendors come out and sponsor those clinics or talks. Gear giveaways. Raffles. Have a fun dive scheduled every other weekend or once a month. Something!
Have something that people will know you for: We donate a lot to the local community -- schools, non-profit organizations. You could try this..It may or may not work as well. But we became famous first for our deals. We would purchase items on closeout and instead of selling the product at MSRP--we passed on those deals to our customers. Obviously that is something that is dependent on MAP pricing and what vendors/manufacturers stipulate that you can or can't do. We still carry full priced product, but we always make sure we have deals, whether that is negotiating a larger discount with a vendor and passing those savings on or buying products on closeouts. We also want everyone to love their purchase. Offer a good return/exchange policy and be open and willing to price match. Price match!
That's all for now but I'll be sure to add more if I can think of anything.
Selection/Inventory - This is mostly directly related to my job -- constantly thinking about assortment. Stocking items while keeping in mind some things: for those that are "brand loyal", price points, and/or thinking about your end consumer. Think of each type of item in your inventory having "categories". some examples are: performance vs. recreational in features or price. For wetsuits, this could be full, shorties, thicknesses -- for different body types. Maybe carrying one full zip 5mm wetsuit for women isn't enough -- know the fit and carry something that fits differently to accommodate that, especially if it comes in special sizing. Fin colors -- have an option for someone who wants to be seen - high vis - and have an option for someone who wants to go all black while having different stiffnesses and/or brands.
The list is endless but I hope you get the idea. I think curating the selection is important here. You don't have to go wide with your inventory in all things. While you probably will want more variety of BCs and wetsuits, you probably only need one brand or option of retractable gear console or for items that are not so size and color dependent with the different SKUs. Oh, and size ratios--get your size ratios right. Don't ever be out of the core sizes.
The People - Having people on staff who know what they're talking about or have "been there" makes a difference. People who have used the products, not just read about reviews or heard feedback from people. Active in the dive community or who likes to travel and dive, or has a specialty in something in the shop that they can wax poetic about in their sleep. People will want to come in and will enjoy talking with them for their experiences, advice, etc. Be honest. Don't be pushy. People will open their wallets when they appreciate this. Being accommodating and not going by the book all the time. Flexibility.
Training....Maybe an employee knows their regulators and regulator technology well but not much about women's fits on wetsuits. While they can help ring people up and help get sizes, being able to talk about the product is important and not just in a superficial way. Cross train people.
As for gender...While a male shop owner who has helped many woman can report that 80% of women like this particular model better, I still think it's different when a woman says she has tried something, finds this works well or doesn't work well, and has heard from other women XYZ. I think of it almost like going to a gyno appointment and a man not ever really understanding what cramps feel like outside of what he has read in the medical books or learned in school. Not exactly the same, but that's the example I could think of.
The Store I think having a place where people can gather for events is important. A community feel. Maybe have clinics that introduce people to various types of diving from all levels such as Discover/OW to tech. Have clinics/classes on how to do basic gear repair or maintenance, or if you have a pool (just one example) how to use reels and SMBs/sausages correctly and safely. Photography classes.. There are so many endless topics you could touch upon. If they buy something during those clinics, they get X % off. Bring manufacturers out for demos during a dive weekend nearby. Raffle off gift cards, give special discounts that weekend, etc. Use co-op funds to have vendors come out and sponsor those clinics or talks. Gear giveaways. Raffles. Have a fun dive scheduled every other weekend or once a month. Something!
Have something that people will know you for: We donate a lot to the local community -- schools, non-profit organizations. You could try this..It may or may not work as well. But we became famous first for our deals. We would purchase items on closeout and instead of selling the product at MSRP--we passed on those deals to our customers. Obviously that is something that is dependent on MAP pricing and what vendors/manufacturers stipulate that you can or can't do. We still carry full priced product, but we always make sure we have deals, whether that is negotiating a larger discount with a vendor and passing those savings on or buying products on closeouts. We also want everyone to love their purchase. Offer a good return/exchange policy and be open and willing to price match. Price match!
That's all for now but I'll be sure to add more if I can think of anything.
I'm new to diving, but not to a male dominated sport. I'm a serious shooter (at the range multiple times a month, lots of training classes, etc.). Women are the largest growing shooting population, so there is the same issue with pink/purple guns and gear. Also with men recommending guns/gear they think would be appropriate for women, but they have no idea how it would actually work for women. Primarily example is men suggesting a small pistol as the first gun for woman, but it's a bad idea due to extra recoil (kick), and they just plain hurt to shoot. I frequent a gun shop that has female staff, but quite simply, they don't patronize me and treat me with respect. I'm also used to quite often being the only woman in a shooting class, and I'm often the only woman by myself at the range (not with a man). The men generally treat me with respect since I'm a competent and safe shooter.
I've only visited one dive shop - Dive Right in Scuba - in the Chicago area. A friend in another state highly recommended them (he's bought a lot of gear from them and raved about the customer service), so I decided to try them out even though they're an hour's drive from me and other shops are closer. I signed up for a Discover Scuba class this week and went in to get fitted for a BCD. I was treated with respect and the shop staff was very friendly and answered my questions without any issues. I'm planning to take my OW class through DRIS.
I happen to like pink/ purple. On the shooting range, it helps to have accessories that aren't black as they stand out and no one will walk away with your stuff!
I'm glad there are custom/personalized options from scuba gear manufacturers such as DUI. I suspect I'm going to have to buy a dry suit sooner than later just because of my build/height. Maybe it will be different when I actually try a dry suit on, but going by the size charts, I'll have an interesting time finding a decent fit in rental gear!
I've only visited one dive shop - Dive Right in Scuba - in the Chicago area. A friend in another state highly recommended them (he's bought a lot of gear from them and raved about the customer service), so I decided to try them out even though they're an hour's drive from me and other shops are closer. I signed up for a Discover Scuba class this week and went in to get fitted for a BCD. I was treated with respect and the shop staff was very friendly and answered my questions without any issues. I'm planning to take my OW class through DRIS.
I happen to like pink/ purple. On the shooting range, it helps to have accessories that aren't black as they stand out and no one will walk away with your stuff!
I'm glad there are custom/personalized options from scuba gear manufacturers such as DUI. I suspect I'm going to have to buy a dry suit sooner than later just because of my build/height. Maybe it will be different when I actually try a dry suit on, but going by the size charts, I'll have an interesting time finding a decent fit in rental gear!
pelan-pelan
Contributor
I like the comment about not being able to tell a person's dive experience/skill just by looking at them (male or female). One day I will look tall, elegant, athletic and intellectual - but it ain't happening any time soon.
But - similarly - don't judge the dive shop staff/instructor/dive guide by their appearance. I've met some really good ones who don't look as if they could say equality, let alone do it.
But - we need better training. So many instructors etc who are athletic and strong (either gender) don't grasp the buoyancy characteristics of a "non-athletic" woman. Listen, we have buoyancy in the chest, rear and thigh departments that out-balances any muscle, and if we are not very tall the proximity of the buoyancy-bits means that we have the flotation characteristics of a ping-ping ball. I was accused of being silly in the pool sessions of my first training because I kept bobbing around. "Stop kicking your legs" - I wasn't moving! It took me considerable angst and an accidental equipment malfunction before I started to figure it out. A couple of years later I found a guy who'd studied buoyancy. He kept an open mind and really looked at what was going on - gave some good advice along the lines of "don't listen to what other people are saying, you are right" and said he'd learnt something!
Buoyancy message - everyone is different and try out all sorts of weighting configurations, integrated weights may not be the solution. And the same is true of all gear. Men's suits fit me best, and "ladies" BC's are made for Barbie (see my first paragraph).
Dive shops - please be patient with customers trying on all the gear - it might be me!
But - similarly - don't judge the dive shop staff/instructor/dive guide by their appearance. I've met some really good ones who don't look as if they could say equality, let alone do it.
But - we need better training. So many instructors etc who are athletic and strong (either gender) don't grasp the buoyancy characteristics of a "non-athletic" woman. Listen, we have buoyancy in the chest, rear and thigh departments that out-balances any muscle, and if we are not very tall the proximity of the buoyancy-bits means that we have the flotation characteristics of a ping-ping ball. I was accused of being silly in the pool sessions of my first training because I kept bobbing around. "Stop kicking your legs" - I wasn't moving! It took me considerable angst and an accidental equipment malfunction before I started to figure it out. A couple of years later I found a guy who'd studied buoyancy. He kept an open mind and really looked at what was going on - gave some good advice along the lines of "don't listen to what other people are saying, you are right" and said he'd learnt something!
Buoyancy message - everyone is different and try out all sorts of weighting configurations, integrated weights may not be the solution. And the same is true of all gear. Men's suits fit me best, and "ladies" BC's are made for Barbie (see my first paragraph).
Dive shops - please be patient with customers trying on all the gear - it might be me!
Totally agree! I've had people comment that I shouldn't be wearing so much weight in the pool (with just bathing suit, rash guard, and leggings) - 6 lb BP, 5 lb STA weight, and 10 lbs at waist (add 5-6 lbs for dry suit). I'm only 5'5". But I'm very well endowed and I'm carrying extra body weight. I am very floaty. People don't believe it unless I intentionally underweight myself just for demonstration purposes. Then they finally get it.
The guys don't realize our built in life preservers (boobs) change things.
The guys don't realize our built in life preservers (boobs) change things.
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