What Am I Looking For In New Regs

[Slym]

So I am really trying to piece together what I want to buy in the future and I have gotten to my regulators, I figure that they are all held to a certain level of quality given they are the most important piece of gear. What I am wondering while I shop around is what I am looking for? There are so many brands and different perks about all of them, I just don't know what I would need. What are some of the things you all consider when buying a new regulator (first or second stage, or the whole setup)?

 

[tbone1004]

same thing I recommend to anyone looking to purchase new gear. What are your ultimate diving goals, and what do you value?
Here are the things to consider
Are you interested in any sort of technical diving?
Are you interested in sidemount?
Do you value the ability to service yourself?
If yes to the above question, do you want to be able to be officially certified to service said regulators?
Are you diving primarily in salt water?
Do you dive at times of the year where the surface and/or water will be near freezing?
Are you willing to spend a premium for "Made in the USA"?
Do used regulators bother you?

Enough variables for you?
Here is what I look for
I will only buy regulators in pairs. I do cave and technical diving so almost all of my regulators are in pairs, backgas, stages, deco bottles. Also to consider if you are diving singles is that carrying the extra first stage with you even if you aren't using it will save you a missed dive in the event of a first stage failure. You can swap the hoses over to the spare first stage in 5 minutes and not miss the next dive. Much more important imho than the ability to get service globally unless you plan on travelling for extended periods of time.

I do not prefer piston regulators, and greatly prefer sealed diaphragms. The seal protects the internals from salt corrosion and while pistons can technically be sealed, it requires packing the chamber with silicone grease, and that's expensive every time you have service.

I require the ability to have accessible parts and kits for user service. It is a requirement for me, and caused me to sell many Apeks regulators.

Made in USA is nice, however mine are made in Sweden. CNC machines are CNC machines and it's the QC department that matters. Dive Rite, Hollis, Hog, and many others have proven that this is not to be of concern.

5 port swivel turrets offer the best hose routing for backmount singles, doubles, and sidemount and despite me not using them for some extenuating circumstances, they would be a requirement for me if I were purchasing new regulators.

Best bang for the buck today?
Cave Adventurers - Dive Rite XT Sidemount Regulator Package - Marianna, Florida USA - Never Undersold!
Grab that for $700, and get an extra HP hose for backmount and you have 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 2 SPG's, and hoses for backmount or sidemount. They have parts available to the users, though no formal training like HOG does, but they are sold by a company with a long track record of top notch user support.

 

[Slym]

I want to do tech diving eventually but I am a pretty long way off of that, however I am still a pretty good believer of buy right buy once. I would love to do wreck penetration down the road, caves don't interest me however.
I also know eventually I will have to get into a drysuit but right now I will be trying out diving with a 7mm or more so certainly no freezing water. Most of my diving will also be in freshwater.
I am really handy with tools and such its what I do for a living, so if I have the proper training to fix them I would love to! Might even save me a few bucks (it certainly does when I work on my own car)
I am not too concerned as to where it is made as much as I am to quality of make. Germany, the UK, and Canada have great products too!
And used certainly doesn't bother me.

The buying an extra reg isn't a bad idea, I have seen doubles sets for a reasonable price in comparison to singles, and paying a bit more to have a second first stage seemed like a decent idea to me.

Cheers for the really detailed advice! I certainly agree with the swivel first stage, the halcyon I have been using is swivel and I couldn't imagine using one that isn't.

 

[Slym]

This here is what I have been eyeing myself:

http://dansdiveshop.ca/product/hog-d1-cold-doubles-regulator-package/

seems like a decent deal, I know my shop sells decent equipment so I am pretty confident in them selling me what I need now and will want later. however understanding what I would need and want is good to know before buying lol

 

[tbone1004]

Matt does certainly sell high end equipment, though you are at a bit of a disadvantage in Canada right now with exchange rates.

The Hog D1 package is quite good, no arguments to that especially at that price.

I would NOT recommend getting into anything thicker than 7mm steamers, that includes farmer johns. It is a safety issue if you are diving deep due to excessive compression, and it is also just not ideal for your body physiologically when compared to drysuits. You can get into some very high quality suits for not a lot of money, Othree is a good example though Matt doesn't sell them. You can also import some very nice simple neoprene drysuits that are a lot better for you in the long run. I would not invest in any high quality wetsuits living up in the Niagara region, it is just throwing money away for when you eventually get a drysuit.

 

[halocline]

So I am really trying to piece together what I want to buy in the future and I have gotten to my regulators, I figure that they are all held to a certain level of quality given they are the most important piece of gear. What I am wondering while I shop around is what I am looking for? There are so many brands and different perks about all of them, I just don't know what I would need. What are some of the things you all consider when buying a new regulator (first or second stage, or the whole setup)?

This is a good question. It is true that all regulators built and sold by reputable companies are going to have a minimum standard of reliability and performance that is perfectly acceptable for almost any diving, except extremely cold water diving.

In general, regulators are very simple devices and they all do basically the same thing, which is reduce air pressure from the tank to breathable levels. There is a lot of hype and nonsense in regulator features and performance numbers. They all work fine. And they have not really improved in decades, although they've gotten more expensive and more complicated.

What I look for is ease of service, and long term proven reliability. This means avoiding particularly esoteric regulators (although that's another hobby, I guess) and sticking with proven simple designs with widespread parts availability. This led me to start using older scubapro classics like the MK5 and MK10, and 109, G250, D300 2nd stages. So all the regs I own and use were used, sometimes decades old when I bought them. There's one exception to that, I bought a MK2 when I first started diving, but I use it on a pony, which I never use anyway, so it sits in a closet.

If I absolutely had to buy a new regulator, I would tempted to look at hog because they do sell service parts to the owner, although I don't know much about them. Do not buy a set of double regulators if you are currently diving a single tank, it's a waste of money. Just buy what you need. You'll have plenty of opportunity to buy more stuff when your diving gets to the technical end of things, and you'll be more knowledgable about gear at that point.

The only real mistake you can make buying a regulator, other than spending too much, is buying a DIN reg if you are diving yoke tanks or vice-versa.

 

[tbone1004]

100% wrong saying it is a waste of money to buy a doubles set of regs. It is not significantly more expensive to purchase a doubles set of regs than a singles set, and that difference, especially with regs like Hog/Dive Rite etc will more than pay for itself if you encounter a first stage failure while on a boat and the option is miss the dive, or take 3 minutes and swap the hoses to your spare first stage so you can get in the water. The cost and expediency of service abroad may be hit or miss, and if you can purchase a doubles set for not significantly more than a singles set, then it is a no brainer.

Right now the cheapest Dive Rite XT singles package is $600 from DGX. A doubles package from Cave Adventurers is $690. A spare first stage is $280. Saves $170 by buying it early, and if you ever decide you want to dive with a pony bottle, sidemount, doubles, H-valve you already have the first stage. What is the cost of missing a dive while on the trip of a lifetime due to a first stage failure? Are you really going to want to rent regs if you have to? etc etc. It's an extra $90, why wouldn't you?

 

[eelnoraa]

For the first set of reg for a new OW diver, if I were to do it all over again, I will do this:
1) buy a single tank setup (sorry tbone, can't agree with you on this)
2) buy yoke
3) buy from reputable manufacture like SP, Apeks, AL, Atomic, .....

Reason for #1 is because single tank setup is here to stay even if you move into tech diving. The cost of regulators is really minimal in tech diving world. Having a set of dedicated single is very convenient, say if you are on vacation, or just want to do a single tank rec diving for a weekend.

Reason for #2 is for rec diving, single tank, the advantage of DIN is minimal. The advantage of yoke is compatibility worldwide. Almost anywhere you go, 90% of the rental tank is yoke. In some vacation spot, you may not even be able to find DIN. Again, it is about convenience.

Reason for #3 is ability to get service. Most likely, new OW diver is not like to work on their regulators. Being able to get the reg look at when it has problem is important. If you eventual start to work on your own reg, you can still do it with the big brands, or you can simple sell the big brand and get something more self service friendly. The issue with starting with DiveRite or HOG is that, in my experience, not so easily to get local service. It is even less easily if you need them look at in places like south east Asian or Hawaii.

 

[Slym]

That is all pretty fair advice!

My thoughts about hog are that once I do get into the more technical diving I will have to have a stage bottle(s) so the reg set can be re purposed for that if they are not sufficient or I just want a different set.

The reason I will be going with DIN is because the shop I rent tanks from only has din tanks, I will have a DtY adapter though which will suffice. Then I will be set for any situation.

This third point I can certainly agree with you! My shop services them, and I am more than willing to take the course to learn to service them. If I am travelling though and something vital breaks, I will probably resort to renting a set. Now I haven't travelled to either place you mention, but I can't imagine it is too hard to find a reg set to rent.

 

[halocline]

1
Right now the cheapest Dive Rite XT singles package is $600 from DGX. A doubles package from Cave Adventurers is $690. A spare first stage is $280. Saves $170 by buying it early....It's an extra $90, why wouldn't you?

What I wouldn't do is spend $600 on a single set of dive rite regs. There are much better deals around. I spent $84 for a MK10/D300 set in excellent condition, it's now half of my cave set.