Wetsuit under dry suit?

[scubadobadoo]

I never stated that a wet suit has NO (as in zero) insulating abilities at all. Ofcourse it does. If it didn't, I wouldn't use one to help me stay warmer. And thicker is better and air bubbles do help. I didn't mention those things but I never said that they didn't matter. I did however, after reading my posts, state that it isn't the wet suit that keeps you warm and that I didn't mean to come out in that manner. That specific statement is wrong, I confess. I was speaking specifically to this quote from the Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving...

(Page 3-22) "Retarded water Circulation. Wet suits get there name from the fact that WATER ENTERS the space between a diver's skin and the foam neoprene. Because this water is usually colder that the diver's skin, it absorbs body heat until water temp and skin temp become equal. (I should have used the word "absorbs" instead of "heat," sorry.)

As long as this warm layer of water remains in place, maintaining thermal equilibrium needs little heat energy. If water circulates freely in and out of the suit, however, the body uses additional energy to warm the new cold water. This is why snug fit is so important."

My explanation was not as good as this one, but clearly a water layer is important. To state that the warmed water layer has nothing to do with a wet suits ability to help keep a diver warm is basically stating that you disagree with the encyclopedia of recreational diving. My apologies if I stated that a wet suit doesn't keep one warm.

Nonetheless, a wet suit doesn't keep one warm enough inside a dry suit.

 

[mnj1233]

The neoprene itself doesn't keep you warm. It's the water that is trapped between your body and the neoprene that is heated by YOU that keeps you from freezing to death sooner than you would without the wet suit. So, a DRY suit would be DRY and that water that your body heats when using a wet suit wouldn't exist in a dry environment. Would you use neoprene to keep you warm instead of your fleece jacket in the middle of a snow storm? I hope not. Make sense? I'm sure someone else will do a better job of explaining this. I tried. LOL.

Really!!! Ever suited up in a 7mm on a boat and had a 20 minute wait prior to entry????? Its NOT the water that warms you, quite the opposite the water transfer removes heat from your body. Still I think a wet suit under a dry suit is silly.

 

[mnj1233]

http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/expo...10_big_lies/3/
Very good article about heat transfer!!!!

 

[jiveturkey]

The neoprene itself doesn't keep you warm. It's the water that is trapped between your body and the neoprene that is heated by YOU that keeps you from freezing to death sooner than you would without the wet suit. So, a DRY suit would be DRY and that water that your body heats when using a wet suit wouldn't exist in a dry environment. Would you use neoprene to keep you warm instead of your fleece jacket in the middle of a snow storm? I hope not. Make sense? I'm sure someone else will do a better job of explaining this. I tried. LOL.

The air keeps you warm. Your suit needs to minimize the flow of water by trapping it. If this water stays where it is, your body doesn't waste energy reheating the "new" water. There's a good explanation of this here: here.

 

[jiveturkey]

http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/expo...10_big_lies/3/
Very good article about heat transfer!!!!

Beat me.

 

[mnj1233]

LOL I wish I could take credit for finding this but someone showed it to me when I was thinking wrong!!!!!

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

My explanation was not as good as this one, but clearly a water layer is important. To state that the warmed water layer has nothing to do with a wet suits ability to help keep a diver warm is basically stating that you disagree with the encyclopedia of recreational diving. My apologies if I stated that a wet suit doesn't keep one warm.

I agree with the explanation above. However, you misunderstand the explanation above. The water layer is not "important" to the suits insulative abilities. It is entirely irrelevant to the suit's insulative abilities and only serves to pull heat out of your body.

That explanation does not say or imply that the water is necessary in order for the suit to insulate. It says that water enters the suit. Another way of putting it is as a previous poster did...that water entering the suit is a necessary evil. It should be minimized, and of course, water flowthrough should be minimized.

I'll say it again, because it's a fact and your quote does not dispute this fact: The water in the suit has absolutely nothing to do with the insulative properties of the suit.

You are getting confused, as so many diver apparently do. Sure, the water in the suit gets warmed to body temperature...by sucking heat out of your body. It STAYS warm because of the insulating ability of the neoprene, and because the suit is well-fitting enough, and sealed at potential entry points for fresh, cold water. The water itself HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KEEPING YOU WARM.

Look, a wetsuit that lets no water in is a neoprene drysuit, right? And those are warmer than wetsuits, even while wearing no undergarments, right? Why? Because the water in the suit is the OPPOSITE of insulative. Any water entering your suit will drain heat from your body. It's a fact.

Seriously, think about it. Your idea that the water insulates you makes no sense at all. Why would you want a close fitting wetsuit, then? Why not something like a drysuit, but filled with water. After all, the more water in the suit, the better insulated you are, right? Wrong. I imagine if you stop and think about it, you'll find that the reality of how wetsuits work makes intuitive sense.

 

[Divemark500]

That's right, boys, the water inside a wetsuit does nothing to improve the insulative qualities of the wetsuit. The gas bubbles trapped in the neoprene are what insulate you. The water contributes zero.

Next thing you know, they'll be saying titanium wetsuits are warmer than non-titanium wetsuits.

Mark

 

[scubadobadoo]

LOL I wish I could take credit for finding this but someone showed it to me when I was thinking wrong!!!!!

Here is a quote from your link "proving" that I am thinking incorrectly...

"There's a kernel of truth in this whopper, though. Once water does get inside and soaks up some of your heat, you at least want to keep it from leaving quickly, so "trapping" is a good thing. If you can't keep the burglar out of your house, at least slow him down. Make your window smaller than your TV set."

My posts were made under the assumption that we all understand that water WILL get into your wet suit. That's why it's called a WET suit. See my quote above from the Encyclopedia. You can't keep water out and as your link states, "trapping is a good thing....slow him down." SO, the water layer does play a role in keeeping you warm when assuming the water has already entered your WET suit and after the water has entered (and we know it will) that wet suit does keep the colder water outside from cooling the warmer water layer inside. As the Enyclopedia states, "That's why fit is so important." You will never keep water out of a wet suit. Out of a dry suit? Yes! That's the context (answering a DRY suit question) that my post was given. Clearly I am not "really really wrong" as stated by Humm above.

Don't get me wrong, you are all correct in saying that it starts with the wet suit, but it doesn't end with it becasue water will get in and play a factor. The water that gets in will chill you, but the water does become warmer and that isn't ONLY thanks to the wet suit. The wet suit insulates but it doesn't actually heat the water layer. The wet suit does keep it from getting colder, but the body does play a factor in heating the water layer. Take a body out of a wet suit and the water inside would stay the same cold temp as the water outside.

I think we all agree here for the most part and I get what you are all saying, but you can't remove the body and the water layer from the equation. That's my main point here. They do play a part. Are they actual insulators? No. I get that. But the body does help in the heating of the water layer inside the suit. Does it KEEP IT WARM? No, I get that too.

 

[mnj1233]

Here is a quote from your link "proving" that I am thinking incorrectly...

"There's a kernel of truth in this whopper, though. Once water does get inside and soaks up some of your heat, you at least want to keep it from leaving quickly, so "trapping" is a good thing. If you can't keep the burglar out of your house, at least slow him down. Make your window smaller than your TV set."

My posts were made under the assumption that we all understand that water WILL get into your wet suit. That's why it's called a WET suit. See my quote above from the Encyclopedia. You can't keep water out and as your link states, "trapping is a good thing....slow him down." SO, the water layer does play a role in keeeping you warm when assuming the water has already entered your WET suit and after the water has entered (and we know it will) that wet suit does keep the colder water outside from cooling the warmer water layer inside. As the Enyclopedia states, "That's why fit is so important." You will never keep water out of a wet suit. Out of a dry suit? Yes! That's the context (answering a DRY suit question) that my post was given. Clearly I am not "really really wrong" as stated by Humm above.

Don't get me wrong, you are all correct in saying that it starts with the wet suit, but it doesn't end with it becasue water will get in and play a factor. The water that gets in will chill you, but the water does become warmer and that isn't ONLY thanks to the wet suit. The wet suit insulates but it doesn't actually heat the water layer. The wet suit does keep it from getting colder, but the body does play a factor in heating the water layer. Take a body out of a wet suit and the water inside would stay the same cold temp as the water outside.

I think we all agree here for the most part and I get what you are all saying, but you can't remove the body and the water layer from the equation. That's my main point here. They do play a part. Are they actual insulators? No. I get that. But the body does help in the heating of the water layer inside the suit. Does it KEEP IT WARM? No, I get that too.

I think this all started with the Question about "wet suit under a DRY suit" NO water in there except some sweat!!!!