Wetsuit indecision, incl. Yamamoto vs iDry

[ojo]

I have a 3mm and it's just not warm enough for much of my diving. Looking to upgrade to a 5, and a little stymied by choices, in part because I cannot try most of them on without ordering. I'd love it to be light, quick-drying, and of course easy to put on/take off.
I want this suit for a) snorkeling for as many hours as I can stay warm in surface temps of 66-73 degrees F (and higher elsewhere), and b) diving to 40 meters in water where surface temp generally ranges from 75F and above.
The first decisions are ...
1. Zipper placement. Back zip is familiar. Chest zip looks horrendous, and I've seen people struggle into them
but have never tried one. Front zip when well-made seems fine.
2. Yamamoto vs standard (probably fleece-lined) neoprene. That's a biggie. Yamamoto fans talk about how it's warmer and lighter,
dries faster, etc etc., But in my conversations with Probe, this is what Dave had to say: "Yamamoto don’t make an internal lining that dries any were near fast enough to call it an iDRY “the world’s fastest drying wetsuit” that’s why we won’t use their material in our quick-dry range. If we did use them, we would call it the iWET as their linings are nothing special."
But maybe I wouldn't Need a lining if I were wearing Yamamoto. Very confusing.

After looking at pretty much all the Yamamoto that's out there, including NinePlus (very styly and well-made but max out at a 4/3 as they are for surfers);
Isurus (unwilling to spend that much), Sisstrevolution (for a 5/4 I'd have to go chest zip, but at least I can go try that one on); Mako - probably first choice in Yamamoto, just looks hard to get into/remove and would be more delicate. But looks to be - and from reviewer on this site - warm and fast-drying. And very colorful (I wonder if sharks prefer nibbling on something that looks like a bit of reef
Top on the list if I don't go Yamamoto is the Probe iDry 5mm, guessing at size with a little input from them.
I know nothing about Camaro except a look at their website, and wonder how that compares with the Probe iDry.

I suppose I'm unlikely to find someone who has work both the Probe iDry and Mako or other Yamamoto, but here, if anywhere. If so, which do you prefer? Which is warmer, if both same mm? Which is lighter, dry, and wet/ And which dries faster?
Thanks!

 

[Akimbo]

I'm a little confused. The Mako and all the Yamamoto suits I'm familiar with are made for freedivers and not lined. They are called open cell but are more accurately split cell. Synthetic sponges are open cell foam.

There is no need to wait for these suits to dry because there is no way you can get in one without spraying suit lube inside. The reason that split cell is so warm is they act as thousands of tiny suction cups that reduces water circulation. Yamamoto freediving suits are easily the warmest and most comfortable suits I have used.

As for zippers, I am a big fan of two-piece suits, farmer pants with pull-over no-zip and beavertail jackets. No zippers to leak or fail.

The problem with modern wetsuits is they are more compressible so depth is part of the decision matrix between the wet or drysuit choice. You can be toasty warm on the surface and cold even as shallow as 60'/20m even without a thermocline depending on the water temperature and your cold tolerance.

To answer your questions you really need to indicate the water temperature and depth you want to use it.

 

[ojo]

I'm a little confused. The Mako and all the Yamamoto suits I'm familiar with are made for freedivers and not lined. They are called open cell but are more accurately split cell. Synthetic sponges are open cell foam.

There is no need to wait for these suits to dry because there is no way you can get in one without spraying suit lube inside. The reason that split cell is so warm is they act as thousands of tiny suction cups that reduces water circulation. Yamamoto freediving suits are easily the warmest and most comfortable suits I have used.

As for zippers, I am a big fan of two-piece suits, farmer pants with pull-over no-zip and beavertail jackets. No zippers to leak or fail.

The problem with modern wetsuits is they are more compressible so depth is part of the decision matrix between the wet or drysuit choice. You can be toasty warm on the surface and cold even as shallow as 60'/20m even without a thermocline depending on the water temperature and your cold tolerance.

To answer your questions you really need to indicate the water temperature and depth you want to use it.

Thanks for your reply. I edited my post to include depth and surface temps.

In Dano's posts re: MAKO, which I imagine you are familiar with, he explains all that about open vs. closed cell, etc. and suggests that his suits are great for scuba as well. Are you saying that Yamamoto freediving suits are the most comfortable you have used for freediving, or for scuba? And what other Yamamotos have you worn and liked or rejected?

There are freedive (MAKO is the only brand I've looked at) and surf/scuba (Sisstrevolution, Sirensong, Nine Plus) Yamamoto suits.

I also have not seen a lined Yamamoto, so I am not sure what Dave was referring to in his email, unless he's talking about something the yamamoto is bonded to.
And I am aware that the Probe iDry is a semi-dry suit.
On with the show. Looking forward to hearing from others as well about what's worked and not.

 

[Akimbo]

Are you saying that Yamamoto freediving suits are the most comfortable you have used for freediving, or for scuba? And what other Yamamotos have you worn and liked or rejected?

Yes, most comfortable because they are soft and stretch so easily, aside from warmth. I have unusual body proportions so all of my suits are custom. I would love to be able to fit in Dano's suits but haven't been able to use an off the shelf suit for almost 50 years.

Note that any wetsuit will be more flexible and stretch more easily with fabric on one side.

There are different grades of Yamamoto with #39 & #45 being the most popular with freedivers. Dano, @MAKO Spearguns, can explain them far better than I can.

I want this suit for a) snorkeling for as many hours as I can stay warm in surface temps of 66-73 degrees F (and higher elsewhere), and b) diving to 40 meters in water where surface temp generally ranges from 75F and above.

I haven't spent enough time in that temperature range in a 5mm suit to say. I can say that I was on the warm side in Hawaii at 40m with water around that temperature in my 7mm suit, but not warm enough in my 3mm. I never had great cold tolerance so my guess is a 2-piece 5mm suit that fits well would be a logical place to start. As another a point of reference, I can spend 3-4 hours in 50° F water in my two piece 7mm. Hope that helps.

 

[ojo]

Yes, most comfortable because they are soft and stretch so easily, aside from warmth. I have unusual body proportions so all of my suits are custom. I would love to be able to fit in Dano's suits but haven't been able to use an off the shelf suit for almost 50 years.

Note that any wetsuit will be more flexible and stretch more easily with fabric on one side.

There are different grades of Yamamoto with #39 & #45 being the most popular with freedivers. Dano, @MAKO Spearguns, can explain them far better than I can.



I haven't spent enough time in that temperature range in a 5mm suit to say. I can say that I was on the warm side in Hawaii at 40m with water around that temperature in my 7mm suit, but not warm enough in my 3mm. I never had great cold tolerance so my guess is a 2-piece 5mm suit that fits well would be a logical place to start. As another a point of reference, I can spend 3-4 hours in 50° F water in my two piece 7mm. Hope that helps.

Helpful, thanks. I wore a 5 mm in Hawaii, only briefly to 40 meters, and that was perfect. Not sure I understood this: "Note that any wetsuit will be more flexible and stretch more easily with fabric on one side." Are you referring to lined suits? I'll have to see what grade of Yamamoto the surf/dive companies are using.

 

[Akimbo]

Not sure I understood this: "Note that any wetsuit will be more flexible and stretch more easily with fabric on one side." Are you referring to lined suits?

Most suits made for Scuba divers use closed cell foam with fabric adhered to both sides. That same suit will be more flexible and stretch more easily with fabric on one side only. That is true with very soft and stretchy material like Yama 39 or 45 or relatively stiff material like Rubatex G231n.

Edit: Soft and stretchy material has the additional advantage of being more forgiving of an imperfect fit. It not only keeps the water film thinner (less water to warm up with your body), it also "pumps" less when you move. Eliminating water circulation is more important in a wetsuit than insulation value.

 

[ojo]

Most suits made for Scuba divers use closed cell foam with fabric adhered to both sides. That same suit with fabric will be more flexible and stretch more easily with fabric on one side only. That is true with very soft and stretchy material like Yama 39 or 45 or relatively stiff material like Rubatex G231n.

Ah, so maybe that's what Dave from Probe was referring to. Thanks again.

 

[GiraffeMarineSalvage]

I really like Yamamoto's quality (for freediving I've been very happy both Yazbeck or Mako, if buying yazbeck it's wise to wait for their black friday sale).
But it's important to note the type of neoprene desirable for freediving vs scuba diving is more different than just open-cell vs closed-cell: soft and stretchy neoprene that's really compressible is desirable for free diving BUT compressed neoprene has the qualifications desirable for scuba diving (ie it's already compressed so much less change in both insulation and buoyancy when at depth, but at cost of being less soft and stretchy..). For a 2 mil mako wetsuit in warm water I wouldn't worry too much about the impact of above differences, but the above will be noticeable in thicker wetsuits...

 

[FreqFlier]

I believe Yamamoto #39 is used exclusively for freediving skins.
I've heard SEAC Komoda Flex (5 and 7mm) is made out of Yamamoto #38 with Dry Fiber lining - didn't have a chance to get my hands on it yet

 

[noserider]

I love my Yamamoto surfing wetsuits (nineplus) but not sure they are good for diving, they are quite fragile and suspect bcd's etc could cause damage. Saying that I am tempted to take an old 2mm nineplus long john to Thailand next month if I can still get into it.

When I was surfing loads I was going to treat myself with a made to measure Yamamoto in Japan but FX rates never seemed to work in my favour on trips over there, so just had to make do with buying lots of raw denim (another obsession)