Wetsuit choice

[stablgr]

Budget isn't really an issue. I just want to make sure I get something that lasts. My old TLS350 dry suit served me well for almost 6 years, albeit with more than a patch or two and several replacement boots!

My daughter is tall and slim so it sounds like O'Neil could work for her. As everyone says we'll make sure to try them on to get the best fit.

 

[ghoombahds]

No amount of trapped water is an insulator. A close fit with a hint of compression is the key.
Pete

I politely beg to differ- all wet suits have a thin layer of water that gets between the suit and the skin, hence *wetsuits*. Some new suits can be virtually dry, but, that is only virtually. Trapping this water and not allowing it to move in and out of your suit to be replaced is what keeps one warm. The compression you mention is a large part of what squeezes this water layer to a bare minimum. Like sealed seams and a tight fit, fleece is another thing the manufacturers have thrown out there to see if it works. I have no idea if it works, but, it is worth noting that both Bare and now Patagonia (headed by uber-outdoor-equipment manufacturer and committed surfer Yvon Chouinard) are offering wool lined suits.

ghoom

 

[Tonio Anastasi]

I've recently moved to the USA and am looking for advice/recommendations on wetsuit manufacturers, mainly from a durability point of view. Most of my diving has been in the chilly waters around Scotland in a drysuit and I'm looking forward to some warmer diving.

I've been looking at Bare, Henderson, O'Neil and Pinnacle but would appreciate any pointers to a durable quality suit.

Most of the diving instructors here in Malta use BARE semi drys in summer or Bare dry suits in winter.
They are very durable suits as many dive centres here use their basic suit as rentals.
Most of our dives are shore dives so they do take alot of punishment.
The are comfortable and really look smart.
Buying 'off the peg' is not a problem as they actually cater for most body shapes and sizes.
i.e. they would have 6 different fits for a medium body to chose from

 

[spectrum]

I politely beg to differ- all wet suits have a thin layer of water that gets between the suit and the skin, hence *wetsuits*.

Let's say there is wetness between the diver and the inside of the suit. A layer implies volume. It should be no more than a wet liner except where that is anatomically impossible.

Some new suits can be virtually dry, but, that is only virtually. Trapping this water and not allowing it to move in and out of your suit to be replaced is what keeps one warm.

Not allowing water to flush is the key to what you are saying and I couldn't agree more. By not allowing water exchange you are not reheating whatever water volume is between you and your suit.

Having the water in there in the first place is an absolute liability, it simply is not an insulator, this is physics. This is why a semi-dry suit is is pretty darned effective. it brings water infiltration and exchange to an absolute minimum short of sealing off entirely.

The compression you mention is a large part of what squeezes this water layer to a bare minimum.

Yup

Like sealed seams and a tight fit, fleece is another thing the manufacturers have thrown out there to see if it works.

Manufacturers throw it in to see if it works? What an endorsement.

It's right up there with a Lycra dive skin appealing to the surface world of layering with fleecy, fuzzy fabrics. These things work topside because they trap air which short of exotic gases is right up there as a great insulator. It's not the fiberglass that keeps your house warm or cool it's the air that is stagnates. Fill it with water and its a pile of worthless glop. Line a wetsuit with fabric and it's just more water volume and wicking opportunity. This is precisely the concept behind "skin-in" suits such as the Henderson Gold Core series. The bare rubber clings to the skin without even a nylon liner to absorb water or facilitate it's movement.

I have no idea if it works, but, it is worth noting that both Bare and now Patagonia (headed by uber-outdoor-equipment manufacturer and committed surfer Yvon Chouinard) are offering wool lined suits.

Hold the phone, you just brought Merino wool into the discussion and that is another story. That stuff does seem to have some merit with some unique active properties. Unlike all of the fleece, flock and fuzz.

Also FWIW I just came home to the March 2007m issue of SCUBA DIVING magazine where you can find "How A Wetsuit Really Works on page 82.

I'll add that just because someone wears a skin, fleece, flock or fuzz under their neoprene and are warm proves nothing except that the combination is adequate for them and their diving.

Pete

 

[scubawife]

My daughter is tall and slim so it sounds like O'Neil could work for her. As everyone says we'll make sure to try them on to get the best fit.

Just so she isn't disappointed, call ahead and make sure the shop you are planning to visit to try O'Neill suits has some women's suits in stock. Ask for the specific thickness you are interested in and the size you think she'll need as well as one up. Not all shops will have women's sizes on the rack. The women's sizing chart on O'Neill's website is pretty accurate to fit. No relation to clothing size. I'm tall and wear a size 6 in clothes. My suits are a 10 Tall and fit like a glove.

 

[ghoombahds]

Let's say there is wetness between the diver and the inside of the suit. A layer implies volume. It should be no more than a wet liner except where that is anatomically impossible.

Right with you there, man. Agreed.

Not allowing water to flush is the key to what you are saying and I couldn't agree more. By not allowing water exchange you are not reheating whatever water volume is between you and your suit.

Having the water in there in the first place is an absolute liability, it simply is not an insulator, this is physics.

Yes, a poor choice of words in my initial post led to this erroneous impression that I was endorsing water as a medium with insulative properties. My bad.

This is why a semi-dry suit is is pretty darned effective. it brings water infiltration and exchange to an absolute minimum short of sealing off entirely.

Exactly

Manufacturers throw it in to see if it works? What an endorsement.

Well, I don't mean to imply that they throw the kitchen sink in there to see if it has merit, I just mean that their research or manufacturing experience makes them believers in a new process and they try to sell that new idea to the public. *Seeing what works* is getting the consumers to buy in. This is sort of what happens in surfing- manufacturers come up with novel and innovsative idea that truly improves a board and then half the time the luddite surfers can't seem to get their heads around it.

Hold the phone, you just brought Merino wool into the discussion and that is another story. That stuff does seem to have some merit with some unique active properties. Unlike all of the fleece, flock and fuzz.

I'm sorry- I was equating Merino and fleece and thought I was speaking of the same thing. What is this fleece that I had mistaken for the Merino? If I was mistaken- my bad.

Also FWIW I just came home to the March 2007m issue of SCUBA DIVING magazine where you can find "How A Wetsuit Really Works on page 82.

Sounds good- i'll look it up.

Pete

thanks!

 

[spectrum]

ghoombahds

Yea marketing is a funny thing. It reminds me of one of my dad's old stories. He and his buddies would go downtown on busy Friday night when he was a kid. They'd stand around city square pointing up at the clock tower until a crowd gathered to see what they were pointing at. After the crowd got big they'd walk off and everyone kept looking at nothing special. The power of suggestion is a powerful thing.

The "fleece" lined suits seem to be falling out of favor, rightfully so. I have seen some Hendersons from a few years ago done that way. The stuff almost looked like that poly carpeting they sell for around swimming pools.

Pete

 

[ghoombahds]

Spectrum

Good article that on wetsuits.... here's the link for any interested. http://www.scubadiving.com/article3437

I've always believed in seams, blindstitching, tight fit, and sticky sealing cuffs. And hoods, it's amazing what a hood will do for you. As for this fleece, I thought that's what the merino was, but, i see I was wrong. Jury's still out on that so I'll wait to see what the woolies report back after a season.

ghoom

 

[stablgr]

Thanks for all the responses. It's all really appreciated especially those from SCUBAWIFE. I'll take those on board when getting wet suits for both me and my daughter.

However getting back to the fleece lined suits I do not believe that they can add any warmth when wet and at depth. Water is not an insulator. The only thing that adds warmth in a wet suit is the gas (air, argon, whatever) within the neoprene.

Anyway besides that I must add that I am looking for suggestions for reccomended thickness for summer diving in Texas and the GOM. Sorry if this is a very vague question but all my previous experience (well 98% of it) is based on diving in sub 40F water in a dry suit.

i was thinking about a 5mm full suit but would like to hear any feedback to the contrary.

 

[stablgr]

At the end of the day there is nothing to beat a good physics leasson. Air (or any other gas for that matter) is by far a better insulator than water, that's why most cave divers use argon to fill their dry suits. Fleece lined suits sound great but all they are doing is minimising the flushing efects of water. Which is what a well fitted wetsuit should do anyway.