Wet Regulator

[DumagueteGuy]

I would have a serious talk with them about the 2300 and the cave.......

If they did this under PADI, I would certainly involve PADI as well. One way or the other I would not let them get away with that and I would do whatever it takes to get my expenses covered.

You might still wanna talk to DAN, they might have advice on how to proceed, knowing that there is a good chance they will see you as a client now

Scary story, glad it ame out well. Thank you for sharing.

 

[gtalum]

Wow! Overhead environment and down to 51' on a checkout dive!!!! Why not just go to 160'?

Overhead is clearly a problem, but what's wrong with going to 52'? The certification is for 60', after all.

 

[crosing]

I would think that signing the waiver does not release the LDS from the liability of providing you with a faulty regulator. I would consult a lawyer.

 

[ReefGuy]

Many, many people are certified using Blue Grotto/Devil's Den as a check out dive. I was. Here's a link to the layout of blue grotto.

http://www.floridacaves.com/bgrottomap.JPG

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with a certification class here.

 

[gtalum]

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with a certification class here.

It would seem to violate the rules of OW certification if they take you beyond the platform, which is the deepest part that is in open water.

 

[BUGBAGGER]

A couple quick notes for newer divers:

1) When checking your regulator before a dive there are some fine points that many divers and instructors miss. One that might have helped here is this. After properly connecting your gear and BEFORE you turn the air on try to take a normal breath from both second stages. Don't suck really hard but use the inhalation effort that you would use at depth. If you are getting any air something isn't right. As mentioned earlier, there are several reasons that you might get air but they all indicate a problem to be solved before you dive with that equipment. Basically, if you are getting air from the reg before you have turned the air on you will be breathing water at depth. Please note, even if your regulator passes this test there is always the chance something can go wrong at depth and cause your regulator to breath wet. This test just helps find the most common causes before you experience them underwater.

2) As previously noted, no diver without specific training for an overhead environment should be in water where they cannot swim directly above to open air at the surface. Another way to say this is that if your bubbles cannot go directly up to the surface you are in an overhead environment. Any place underwater where you cannot swim directly up to the surface presents more challenges and opportunities for problems that you need additional training to be prepared to handle. The type of training that prepares you for this is found in wreck diver, cavern diver, and cave diver specialty training.

3) I have not been to the divesite noted, however, if the diagram on the link posted by ReefGuy is accurate then the area to the left of the 10ft down line and the area to the right of the downline to the 35ft platform would all be overhead environment and not appropriate for an Open Water student or certified diver without overhead environment training. In fact, if the drawing is to scale, even though peace rock may be only about 50ft deep (and in an overhead environment),a diver would have to swim about 75 feet combining the angled swim and the direct ascent to reach the surface from Peace Rock. Even if there were not standards of training considering an overhead environment this would put the diver outside of an acceptable OW training environment.

4) Don't stop practicing your skills just because your certified. I am really happy that the divers present at this situation are alive and diving. I only hope that as they kept diving they have taken the opportunity to practice some self rescue skills like locating and using their alternate air source and properly signaling and conducting an air sharing ascent. Preferably, they practice an air sharing ascent using their buddy's alternate air source but if they were also taught the buddy breathing method they could practice that as well.

More than enough said....

Safe diving to all!

 

[ReefGuy]

It would seem to violate the rules of OW certification if they take you beyond the platform, which is the deepest part that is in open water.

I quite agree, and don't think I've seen anyone with a class past the lower platform.

 

[NewFloridaDiver]

If they did this under PADI, I would certainly involve PADI as well. One way or the other I would not let them get away with that and I would do whatever it takes to get my expenses covered.

Hi folks, it's been a few days, sorry we haven't been attentive to this post! This training was done under PDIC, I don't know if that matters really. The overhead environment wasn't technically correct, for sure, but that wasn't an issue either in this case. The way I see it, the issues are faulty rental equipment and not enough skills practice.

The training we get today isn't nearly enough to qualify divers to go out on their own and start diving un-supervised. We were both amazed at how fast we went from our 1st lecture class to open water check out dives!

I would re-classify OW to BOW for Basic Open Water, change AOW to IOW for Intermediate Open Water, and then come up with a "Real" Advanced Open Water class.

Before and since our dives in Bahamas which were picture perfect by the way, we are working together on a regular basis practicing basic skills, working on bouyancy, and OOA drills. We're also learning as much as possible about DIR diving and BP/W gear setups to hopefully get a better start, using the best equipment.

We've (NewFloridaDiverLady, btw) both become Nitrox certified, with AOW and Rescue Diver next on the list.

Thanks to all who've contributed to this thread. There are many good ideas, food for thought and I appreciate that very much.

More later on the issues of liability for this near fatal accident...

 

[NewFloridaDiver]

It would seem to violate the rules of OW certification if they take you beyond the platform, which is the deepest part that is in open water.

Reefguy, thanks for posting that link to the BlueGrotto. It's a very cool place to dive for sure! Yes, I agree that it's a violation of OW Cert to be going down to Peace Rock, then up to the fresh air bell at 30', but it sure was an awesome checkout dive for me! It was for NewFloridaDiverLady as well, once she recovered and went back to it. She saw more things down there than I did! I don't know what to think, we're just newbies ya know? We're supposed to trust and follow our Instructor, so we did.

Thanks for posting, safe and wonderous diving everyone.

 

[NewFloridaDiver]

Overhead is clearly a problem, but what's wrong with going to 52'? The certification is for 60', after all.

There isn't a problem for going to 52' as near as I can tell. Our cert was for "recommended" 60', but OW states 100 right? Well on our 1st dives in the Bahamas, everyone went down to 72 (dive #5 and about 82 (dive #7) on the next day to see some very cool walls, reefs ,wrecks and tons of reef sharks. Very strange feeling that was, it was like we were on our own down there even with all those people around, they were all ahead of the two of us. But, once we were relaxed and comfortable with our bouyancy control, all the dives were great!