Watson Murder Case - Discussion

[bsee65]

Well, I'm going to respond to this and then I think I'm done for a while. You guys are getting decidedly more worked up over this whole thing than I am. Am I sad that a young lady died...absolutely! Do I believe that the outcome of this is going to affect my life one way or the other…not so much! I feel like I’m being attacked because I choose to view this case in a little different light than the rest of you. Being called “inflammatory” and told that I have a “shotgun approach” to discussing this is kind of insulting, as I’m certain it was meant to be. I was simply looking for a little “light sparring” over the matter…a friendly discussion with varying opinions, but it appears that K_girl and bsee65 allow for only one opinion on the matter and that is theirs.

I would like to clear one thing up though. The following comment from the scuba forum that I included earlier - “Gabe had more experience, and he did the 'right thing' (textbook answer) on how he responded, and what he did that day. Overconfidence is what kills scuba divers. Becoming separated from a "dive buddy" is a violation of safety procedures for recreational diving. I'm afraid Tina died "as a result of a diving accident for which she was solely responsible. I know that may not sit well with the family, but such is life. No one put a gun to her head to do it.” - WAS NOT my comment. I found in on another forum and only included it as proof that there are others that don’t feel that Gabe Watson made the wrong decision that day. I DO NOT agree that Tina was responsible for her own death and in hindsight should have included only the bolded sentences of that comment as they were the only portion relevant to my argument. I was not trying to “insight” anyone and I apologize if I did so. Sorry to have stirred up the hive; I hope you guys enjoy agreeing with each other until you finally get sick of talking about it.

The fact and manner in which you brought in the quote suggests that you accept or support it. You certainly didn't refute it as you presented it. It was obvious by the way it was presented that they weren't your words. As far as calling them inflammatory, I stand by that. I would have a hard time believing that anyone who has participated in this discussion would agree that "Tina died as a result of a diving accident for which she was solely responsible."

This site is not here for "light sparring". We're here to analyze incidents and learn from them. If you want to raise an issue or question an item go for it but, do it for the purpose of getting closer to the truth or some valuable lesson to keep divers safer in the future. Don't do it just for giggles or to generate some enjoyable controversy.

Where this case stands is that there are two explanations for what occurred, a murder or an accident. There are a several circumstantial things that point toward Watson's guilt, mostly from his questionable testimony on the matter, but there's no real hard evidence either way. The eye-witness testimony doesn't clear it up nor did the post mortem. There's talk of Watson's attempts to increase his insurance benefit in the event of Tina's death, and I do consider that against him. There's also a lot of anti-Watson publicity relating to his relationship with Tina's parents, especially after the fact, but that doesn't factor into my opinion.

If there are any additional facts out there, or alternate explanations for any of the events, by all means let's discuss them. If there are any facts that prove or disprove the statements that anyone has made, likewise.

In any case, I think this incident has run its course as a discussion of a diving incident. That was probably the case by the time this thread was even started. It now only exists as a curiosity for those who invested enough time in the original discussion to care about the final outcome.

 

[bsee65]

The quotes you allude to in Diving Queen's post were from various media sources and have been used many times by people in two threads to argue for and against this case. However I think the debate as to whether the media is the correct place to be gathering "evidence" is long over.

Please, let's not resort to personal attacks though and ruin a reasonably good debate; that's unnecessary and does you no credit as some of your arguments have been thought-provoking.

You can read what I just posted in terms of attribution of the quote. Where it came from doesn't matter to me. It's hard to repeat a quote without either disagreeing with it or supporting it. Diving Queen brought the quote into the discussion to support a position that Watson wasn't guilty which suggests some level of agreement with it.

As far as personal attacks go, I didn't make any and I stand by my comments. To come late into a discussion like this and throw everything at the wall is a shotgun approach. Diving Queen admits that she posted in order to engage in some "light sparring" which is awfully close to the definition of trolling.

You're not going to make any progress arguing the entire case as a whole, just create controversy. If you want to get closer from here, you'll have to take a fact or statement and see if it fits into the whole. If you find a piece or two that you can't make fit with the rest, then you have to question the validity of the things that don't fit. When everyone sees a thing in one way, there's great value in someone taking a contrary position to question theories. I appreciate the value of a "devil's advocate" in such a discussion. It's taking a contrary position with the intent to get somwhere, not just for the sake of a good argument.

 

[diving queen]

This site is not here for "light sparring". We're here to analyze incidents and learn from them.

In any case, I think this incident has run its course as a discussion of a diving incident. That was probably the case by the time this thread was even started. It now only exists as a curiosity for those who invested enough time in the original discussion to care about the final outcome.

I'm so sorry...I had no idea we were solving the problems of the world on the Scuba Board Accidents and Incidents thread. If Gabe Watson did or did not kill his wife, what life lesson exactly are we supposed to gain from the discussion of it? And if the discussion of this incident has run its course, why do you continue to have an opinion on this thread either way? You say yourself there is nothing left to discuss, so sit back and wait for the judges to render their decision.

As far as "trolling" goes, I'm not even sure I know what that is or means. And you have no idea how much time I have or have not invested in this matter OR how much I do or do not care about the outcome to say whether I should or should not be taking part in this thread.

I originally entered this thread with what I thought was a very important question AND concern for divers based on the outcome of this matter but no one seemed interested in it until another poster (a "regular member") on this thread had an opinion on it. So I'll leave you with my original question which neither you or K_girl bothered to answer the first time.

I'm curious if the precedence set by Gabe Watson pleading guilty to "leaving his dive buddy" is going to affect the dive buddy of this fellow, too.

CDNN :: Fatal Diving Accident Prompts Calls for Government Regulation

It sounds like to me that QLD is going to have certify or re-certify (if people were certified elsewhere) everyone that comes to dive in that state if they ever want people to dive there again. Especially now that the precedence has been set that if you inadequately perform your duties as "dive buddy", you could be held legally responsible and spend time in jail. I mean, how many people could potentially try to save a panicking diver because they feel "legally" responsible to do so and then end up perishing themselves?

Then, after my post another incident that occurred on the Tunnel Wall in Nassau in June of this year was brought up which is also relevant to my original question -

CDNN :: Search On for Missing Bahamas Scuba Diving Course Participant There have been SEVERAL discussions about this incident on the ScubaBoard website as well.

Could their dive buddies possibly have the same fate as Gabe Watson if they are held to the new standard that has been set by his plea of guilty to the offense of leaving his dive buddy which resulted in her death?

That was my original question on this thread and I'd be interested to know what your opinions are on that or if you have an opinion on it.

 

[livinoz]

I originally entered this thread with what I thought was a very important question AND concern for divers based on the outcome of this matter but no one seemed interested in it until another poster (a "regular member") on this thread had an opinion on it. So I'll leave you with my original question which neither you or K_girl bothered to answer the first time.

I'm curious if the precedence set by Gabe Watson pleading guilty to "leaving his dive buddy"...

There have been numerous posts within this thread on that very topic, both from "lay people" and from those with legal expertise. I think it has yet to be decided if a legal precedent has been set by the Watson case.

It sounds like to me that QLD is going to have certify or re-certify (if people were certified elsewhere) everyone that comes to dive in that state if they ever want people to dive there again. Especially now that the precedence has been set that if you inadequately perform your duties as "dive buddy", you could be held legally responsible and spend time in jail. I mean, how many people could potentially try to save a panicking diver because they feel "legally" responsible to do so and then end up perishing themselves?

Could their dive buddies possibly have the same fate as Gabe Watson if they are held to the new standard that has been set by his plea of guilty to the offense of leaving his dive buddy which resulted in her death?

That was my original question on this thread and I'd be interested to know what your opinions are on that or if you have an opinion on it.

Again, there have been many answers to this type of question within this thread, dealing with legal and moral issues regarding the role of a "dive buddy", and perhaps that's why you didn't receive many answers to your original question. Also despite some vocal posturing by various groups in Queensland there has been no consensus about what changes the dive industry needs to make, if any, nor what the legal ramifications will be from the case you cited. The diving fraternity has always been self-regulating and I don't know whether Government interference would be of benefit. But as it is a multi-million dollar tourist industry I'm sure there will be some stance taken to protect that, if nothing else. I just hope it is a consultative process and those of us who love diving get some say.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I originally entered this thread with what I thought was a very important question AND concern for divers based on the outcome of this matter but no one seemed interested in it until another poster (a "regular member") on this thread had an opinion on it. So I'll leave you with my original question which neither you or K_girl bothered to answer the first time.

Please do not take this in a negative way but I have discovered that often what we see as very important questions are not considered to be all that important to others... it is the nature of the beast here. It is easy for people to get the wrong idea, feel slighted or question motivation without the benefit of physical communication tags.

I'm curious if the precedence set by Gabe Watson pleading guilty to "leaving his dive buddy" is going to affect the dive buddy of this fellow, too.

CDNN :: Fatal Diving Accident Prompts Calls for Government Regulation

It sounds like to me that QLD is going to have certify or re-certify (if people were certified elsewhere) everyone that comes to dive in that state if they ever want people to dive there again. Especially now that the precedence has been set that if you inadequately perform your duties as "dive buddy", you could be held legally responsible and spend time in jail. I mean, how many people could potentially try to save a panicking diver because they feel "legally" responsible to do so and then end up perishing themselves?

There has been significant discussion here about the impact of this case on the judicial system in Australia and whether or not this creates a true legal precedent. I put the most weight behind UnderExposed's posts on this issue as he is a Barrister in Australia familiar with Australian laws. It'sBruce is a lawyer to so I think even tho he is not a specialist in Australian Law his insights are very significant as well. I do not feel qualified to argue points of law so I am waiting on more information to be revealed before I comment further in that area.

I won't be worrying about Queensland imposing recertification requirements on those wishing to dive there until a see something more than a media beat up on the issue. The Cynic in me says Col McKenzie's statements likely a result of political opportunism.

I have not heard any alarm bells ringing in the dive industry here yet. Changes in Queensland may be seen as leading the way for changes elsewhere in the country. I don't see attempts to over regulate the industry being ignored without some significant reaction within the dive community here.

I also can not see Queensland doing anything that could significantly compromise the tourism industry in the State. I think saner heads will prevail. This is a topic in the news right now and good for political headlining value. I would also suggest that if Tina was a 58 year old male and not an attractive young lady on her honeymoon that case would not have go the press coverage it has. They do love a "human interest" heart wrenching story!

Then, after my post another incident that occurred on the Tunnel Wall in Nassau in June of this year was brought up which is also relevant to my original question -

CDNN :: Search On for Missing Bahamas Scuba Diving Course Participant There have been SEVERAL discussions about this incident on the ScubaBoard website as well.

Could their dive buddies possibly have the same fate as Gabe Watson if they are held to the new standard that has been set by his plea of guilty to the offense of leaving his dive buddy which resulted in her death?


That was my original question on this thread and I'd be interested to know what your opinions are on that or if you have an opinion on it.

I am not convinced that even if a precedent where set in Australian Law (which does not necessarily seem to be the case at this time) the precident would not be binding on a court in another country.

I Think there are some significant differences in these two stories. I personally think we can learn more from the Woods case to improve our own diving than we can in the Watson case. I certainly have.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Interesting Liv you basicly said what I said but quicker :worship:

 

[livinoz]

Interesting Liv you basicly said what I said but quicker :worship:

Great minds think alike!

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I believe we met on this topic didn't we? I have certainly gained more insight into the legal system here and some friends as well.

 

[livinoz]

I believe we met on this topic didn't we? I have certainly gained more insight into the legal system here and some friends as well.

I think you're right!

I don't mind a debate, but (nb, this is my own opinion) I think we've beaten this topic to a pulp and now have to wait for the Appeal decision to see if that brings anything new.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Yes I agree with you (again) on that. I have kept reading in case something turns up and especially to see if the legal minds have any new insights