Watson Murder Case - Discussion

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With regard to the first question, I believe that an honorable prosecution that didn't believe this was a murder wouldn't file a case at all. They wouldn't (shouldn't?) want a manslaughter conviction for a man who failed to save his wife when he should have been able to.

Bsee65, the fact is that Tina's parents and their persistence are the only reason this case has gotten as far as it has. How many divers have died since October 2003, and how many of THOSE "dive buddies" were guilty of not doing enough to save their buddy? How many of them could have (and probably wish they would have) done more to save their buddy and based on a split-second decision, didn't? The only reason this case has gotten the media attention it has and suddenly, three years after the fact, went from being classified as a terrible, terrible accident to warranting a Coronial Inquest and a subsequent murder charge is that the Thomas family is angry, they are in pain, and they have decided to lash out and make wild accusations against the person they hold personally responsible for the death of their daughter. No, the prosecution shouldn't want to convict an innocent man of manslaughter, but they also didn’t want a couple of Americans running around screaming that their justice system is defunct...oh, wait, that happened anyway.
 
Bsee65, the fact is that Tina's parents and their persistence are the only reason this case has gotten as far as it has. How many divers have died since October 2003, and how many of THOSE "dive buddies" were guilty of not doing enough to save their buddy? How many of them could have (and probably wish they would have) done more to save their buddy and based on a split-second decision, didn't? The only reason this case has gotten the media attention it has and suddenly, three years after the fact, went from being classified as a terrible, terrible accident to warranting a Coronial Inquest and a subsequent murder charge is that the Thomas family is angry, they are in pain, and they have decided to lash out and make wild accusations against the person they hold personally responsible for the death of their daughter. No, the prosecution shouldn't want to convict an innocent man of manslaughter, but they also didn’t want a couple of Americans running around screaming that their justice system is defunct...oh, wait, that happened anyway.

Forgive me...but you sound like a disgruntled Watson family member...or at the very least someone close to him. I don't think Tina's family holds that much sway in Australia. I think there were red flags from the beginning based on witness statements, police interview of Gabe Watson and the series of events as reported by those who were there that day of the incident. I think the family was incited to react by divers who were on the trip with Gabe and Tina Watson, who contacted the family first because they felt his story did not add up.

I do think the family did use the momentum of the investigation and Gabes behaviors and their own viewpoints in hindsight of his relationship with their daughter to help drive the investigation that much harder. But, to say, they alone, could hold Australian justice system hostage is a bit of overstatement. IMHO
 
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While I cannot think of any specific example at the moment, I know there are lots of instances in which people were wrongly convicted of murder and spent many years in prison only to be vindicated by DNA evidence. So, we know those people were NOT guilty. But, does anyone think that if any of them knew what would happen and had the opportunity to plead guilty to manslaughter and served only a few years, they wouldn't have done so?

A few years ago the governor of Illinois put a moratorium on the death sentence when 50% of the prisoners on death row were proven to be not guilty via DNA evidence.

John Grisham, normally a novelist, wrote a documentary titled The Innocent Man which chronicles the real life conviction and very near execution (his execution was stayed at the last hour when his last appeal was read by someone who uncharacteristically decided to work over the weekend) of a man who was obviously innocent but who had somehow been convicted of murder. DNA evidence later freed him and put the real killer (who was just as obviously guilty in the first place) in jail. The book also shows that the same police and DA convicted other people who are also obviously innocent but are still serving life sentences because there was no DNA involved to free them.

BTW, it turns out the real killer in that case was not investigated because he was the person who supplied the police department with cocaine.
 
Bsee65, the fact is that Tina's parents and their persistence are the only reason this case has gotten as far as it has. How many divers have died since October 2003, and how many of THOSE "dive buddies" were guilty of not doing enough to save their buddy? How many of them could have (and probably wish they would have) done more to save their buddy and based on a split-second decision, didn't? The only reason this case has gotten the media attention it has and suddenly, three years after the fact, went from being classified as a terrible, terrible accident to warranting a Coronial Inquest and a subsequent murder charge is that the Thomas family is angry, they are in pain, and they have decided to lash out and make wild accusations against the person they hold personally responsible for the death of their daughter. No, the prosecution shouldn't want to convict an innocent man of manslaughter, but they also didn’t want a couple of Americans running around screaming that their justice system is defunct...oh, wait, that happened anyway.

The fact is, the police investigators thought there was something wrong about Watson's statements right from the start and that was not something they initially shared with Tina's family. Tina's family did not have their suspicions until months later when divers who were present began raising red flags directly to the family. I can't imagine a family who would not push any justice system to find out what happened to their daughter in light of what they learned.
 
A few years ago the governor of Illinois put a moratorium on the death sentence when 50% of the prisoners on death row were proven to be not guilty via DNA evidence.

John Grisham, normally a novelist, wrote a documentary titled The Innocent Man which chronicles the real life conviction and very near execution (his execution was stayed at the last hour when his last appeal was read by someone who uncharacteristically decided to work over the weekend) of a man who was obviously innocent but who had somehow been convicted of murder. DNA evidence later freed him and put the real killer (who was just as obviously guilty in the first place) in jail. The book also shows that the same police and DA convicted other people who are also obviously innocent but are still serving life sentences because there was no DNA involved to free them.

BTW, it turns out the real killer in that case was not investigated because he was the person who supplied the police department with cocaine.

I read "The Innocent Man" about a man whose only crime was being mentally ill. Did you know the prosecutor in that case is still a prosecutor? Talk about prosecutorial misconduct! He should have been charged and sent to jail for what he did. It was proven in the appeal, that he actually fabricated false witness testimony and yet, no charges were ever filed. Not only that, but he has done it more than once, there was another book written about this very same prosecutor regarding two other cases.

But that aside, how does prosecutorial misconduct equate in this case? I have not seen nor heard of any charges of prosecutorial misconduct here. So why are we talking about this?
 
Forgive me but because I have not made 5 posts, I can't include links yet, so here are a few bogus posts to get me to five so I can post some links.
 
Forgive me but because I have not made 5 posts, I can't include links yet, so here are a few bogus posts to get me to five so I can post some links. Just be patient!
 
Forgive me...but you sound like a disgruntled Watson family member...or at the very least someone close to him. I don't think Tina's family holds that much sway in Australia. I think there were red flags from the beginning based on witness statements, police interview of Gabe Watson and the series of events as reported by those who were there that day of the incident. I think the family was incited to react by divers who were on the trip with Gabe and Tina Watson, who contacted the family first because they felt his story did not add up.

I do think the family did use the momentum of the investigation and Gabes behaviors and their own viewpoints in hindsight of his relationship with their daughter to help drive the investigation that much harder. But, to say, they alone, could hold Australian justice system hostage is a bit of overstatement. IMHO

Well, alohagal, you are forgiven. And so sorry to disappoint but I don’t know any of the people involved in this. It amuses me though; I’ve read several articles on this story and the comments people post afterwards and it seems like any time someone is of the opinion that this guy might not have done what everyone is saying he did, everyone else starts posting stuff saying this must be Gabe Watson, or this must be a friend of his, or this must be his dad, or this must be his new wife. Why is it that when anyone is of the opinion that this guy is some psychopathic killer they are not accused of being Tina’s dad, sister, or friend? Just something to think about… Any way, in response to what you say, I am not, in fact, “a disgruntled Watson family member” or even someone close to him. I’ve never met the guy and know as much about this as I’ve read in the papers and on forums…same as you. It’s just that in reading all of this some things popped out at me. While I find K_girl’s website to have the most information located in one place, most of her articles seem to come from the Townsville Bulletin (which seems to be a little slanted toward the Thomas’ IMHO) and they don’t have any archived articles past early 2007 available on their site so you can’t really go back and look at the early information about this incident. I have found CDNN’s website to be much more useful since you can research articles back to the day this was first reported. And since I have nothing better to do and have read just about everything published on this, I’d like to point out a few things.

First, I’d like to back up what I said about her family pushing this investigation on. The day of the incident, the first article CDNN posted about it stated this: “Detectives last night interviewed 50 people -- all of the passengers and crew -- from the dive boat. Police communications co-ordinator Sergeant Nick Sellars said there were no suspicious circumstances with the death and a report would be prepared by water police for the coroner. The incident was the second death from the Spoil Sport in less than a year.” (CDNN :: Mike Ball Spoil Sport Liveaboard Diver Dies Diving Near Yongala Wreck) Here is where I question your comment about “I think there were red flags from the beginning based on witness statements, police interview of Gabe Watson and the series of events as reported by those who were there that day of the incident.” No one said ANYTHING that day based on everything that I have read. It was being reported as what I said, a terrible, terrible accident. Now, I’m getting all of this from the media, and since we are believing EVERYTHING they say, it must be true (I hope you are all picking up on my sarcasm there!). There’s another article the next day (CDNN :: Mike Ball Spoil Sport Guest Died On Her Honeymoon) which stated “Police and workplace health and safety officers will investigate the death. The woman is the fourth American to die in north or central Queensland waters in the past 12 months: three were divers and one was a snorkeler.” Still no mention of foul play, murder, suspicious circumstances, nothing. There’s one more article at the end of that month (CDNN :: Mike Ball Manager Denies Negligence in Spoil Sport Death) with still no mention of anything out of the ordinary where the husband was concerned but continued concerns about possible negligence on the part of Mike Ball’s Spoil Sport crew, something that never got a whole lot of press from what I can tell. Almost TWO FULL YEARS pass without a word from him, from her family, from anyone as far as my research shows and then end of October 2005, BAM!!, there are articles with phrases like “And the family's frustration and ongoing grief finally erupted this week, with parents Tom and Cindy lashing out at the slowness of the investigation, calling on Australian police to explain why the investigation was not yet final and had yielded no results.” CDNN :: Cover Up Down Under? Still No Answers in Mike Ball Spoil Sport Death “The family's frustration first surfaced last October on the second anniversary of their daughter's death, when they lashed out at the slowness of the investigation, and called on Australian police to explain why the investigation was not yet finalized and had yielded no results.” CDNN :: Parents seek answers to daughter’s death on Mike Ball 'Spoil Sport' dive “And Tommy Thomas says enough time has passed and he wants this investigation concluded.” CDNN :: Investigation into Mike Ball Spoil Sport Death Drags On and finally “Mr. Watson has avoided media attention since the event, however Tina's parents Tom and Cindy Thomas, who have had little contact with their son-in-law since the accident, were in Townsville last month demanding to know why an investigation into their daughter's death had stalled.” (CDNN :: Gabe Watson: 'I tried to save Tina'). And it was that last article that finally had some interesting stuff in it. It was dated May 6, 2006. Here is where that pesky “negligence on the part of the Spoil Sport crew” thing that kind of got washed to the way side came up again and low and behold, “It has been confirmed that a Workplace Health and Safety report was undertaken following the incident, and that charges were laid against Mike Ball Dive Expeditions for breaches under the Workplace Health and Safety Act, to be heard in the Townsville Industrial Magistrates Court on May 16.” The other thing that I found really interesting in that article was this quote from Watson’s attorney, “Mr. Austin said his client was told before he left Australia in October 2003 that the investigation would take six months to a year before a report was placed before the coroner, and that timeframe had now been well and truly exceeded. "But no one has tried to contact Gabe in the past two-and-a-half years. He has tried to ring and email Townsville investigators about where things stand, but has had no luck, so we have contacted a Townsville lawyer to keep us up to date.”” Seems to me that the Queensland police were not investigating anything because they didn’t think there was anything to investigate, i.e. accident. The family didn’t “use the momentum of the investigation”, as you say; they WERE the momentum of the investigation. It was non-existent until they got involved. That is why I made the comment that they have pushed this thing from the beginning. The investigation never picked up any steam until the locomotive named Tommy Thomas got behind it. Just my opinion based on what I have read. And I just have to add this comment from one of the CDNN scuba forums about Mike Ball Spoil Sport and negligence because it amuses me - “Has anyone else noticed that whenever a dive operator in Queensland screws up and kills or nearly kills a customer, within 24 hours the Aussie press starts publishing reports attacking the credibility of the victim? That's what they did to Tom and Eileen Lonergan, that's what they did to Gabe and Tina Watson and that's what they did to Richard Neely and Alison Dalton. You wonder how much Dive Queensland has to pay to keep the local media on retainer and smear the reputation of foreigners who make the mistake of going scuba diving in Australia.”

The second comment I made was about people making split-second decisions while diving and wishing they had made different decisions or could go back and change something. From some of the comments that I read from the same scuba forum on CDNN, looks like some folks don’t necessarily disagree with the decision Watson made – (1)“Gabe had more experience, and he did the 'right thing' (textbook answer) on how he responded, and what he did that day. Overconfidence is what kills scuba divers. Becoming separated from a "dive buddy" is a violation of safety procedures for recreational diving. I'm afraid Tina died "as a result of a diving accident for which she was solely responsible." I know that may not sit well with the family, but such is life. No one put a gun to her head to do it.” (2) “First let's consider the Rescue Diver certification. Being certified to the Rescue Diver level does not automatically mean you can save divers who encounter problems, especially in strong currents, which significantly increase the inherent risks of scuba diving. The sea is boss and if the divers were separated by strong currents, there is little if anything the husband could have done to reach his wife. Second, divers are trained to ascend to the surface after one minute if they lose contact with their buddy. Isn't that what the husband did? Finally, most enthusiastic divers encourage their partners to take up the sport. So unless there is something you are not telling us about the relationship, your accusations that Gabe Watson killed his wife seem more malicious than true.” and (3) “Also, the rule of diving is not to go down to come up. Thats crazy. If you get separated from your buddy or they get into trouble, you give them 1 minute and you surface. And from the way it sounds that is what he did after she knocked his mask off. I know if I was trying to help someone and they even touched my mask or regulator I would be outta there!”

Lastly, you say that you don’t think it is possible for the Thomas’ alone to “hold [the] Australian justice system hostage”, but I beg to differ. When you’ve got articles titled “Father furious with sentence” being posted everywhere, people screaming things like “This is in no way, shape or form a beginning to get justice for my daughter. We are in total shock at what has transpired. What has happened is ludicrous . . . and an embarrassment." (Father furious at sentence for Gabe Watson over dive death | The Courier-Mail) and personally meeting with the QLD A-G office to implore him to appeal the sentence, you kind of have to do something or look stupid, don’t you? And then the A-G from the state of Alabama gets involved and says “"I do not believe the Australians are unjust people and I know the country doesn't want the reputation of the new Aruba," King said.” Can you really NOT respond with all that going on?

Is it possible that he murdered his wife? Yes. Is it probable? Not really. What I see is terrible accident and a distraught family trying to make it into something it is not. And the fact is that after all of this is said and done, their daughter will still be gone, they’ll still be sad and more people will be left suffering all because one man made one decision and it didn’t turn out the way he hoped it would. And all of THAT bring me back to the original question that I posted on this board. Based on the precedence that the Watson case has set, how many people will potentially try to save a panicking diver because they feel "legally" responsible to do so and then end up perishing themselves? Or how many won’t and will end up in jail too because of a “bad decision”? Like I said before, something to think about…
 
Hi Diving Queen. I read your post above differently and certainly didn't think you were related somehow to the families involved. Just to let you know CDNN has a pretty bad reputation around here with quite a few people for poor reporting. Also the fact that most of our information regarding this case comes from media reports, etc, has been dealt with in an earlier thread on Watson as well as posts in this thread. The Judge's sentencing remarks are posted here http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4477334-post229.html and we are awaiting the Appeal results.
 

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