Was I completely insane? (Blue Hole as first dive)

[Ukalliq]

Thank you all for your comments. I will try to answer some of your questions/comments:

Did you plan that dive?

No, we did not personally plan the dive but we were given a detailed plan/briefing beforehand. In the water, it was mostly follow-the-leader.

Were you aware of how much air you would use at that depth?

I did not know what my specific air consumption would be at that depth, but I did know that divers use more air at depth - is that what you are asking?

If it was my first dive and I had gone with the group, I probably would have been the one running out of air after 6 minutes in Karibelle's example.

To their credit, the DMs had extra air with them as well as extra cylinders attached to a line at the safety stop spot.

One of the several things I am feeling sheepish about is that I didn't have much of an idea about my general air consumption rate before this dive. I don't think you can really get a good idea from training dives where half the time you are doing skills and the other half you are kneeling there doing nothing while other people do skills.

Later in the day, I found out I have shockingly good air consumption for an out-of-shape newbie, probably due to being a very natural and relaxed swimmer. But yeah, I realize now that is something I should have a good grasp of before a dive of this nature.

FWIW - I recently posted about a similar experience that happened 10 years ago ...

Hmm. Same outfit.

I wouldn't say the OP was "completely insane," but he did use poor judgment as did the dive op but in all candor it's the sort of thing I probably would have done in his situation, too.

I'm a she.

It was a foolish dive to do and you knew it at the time and chose to do it anyway.

Among many other factors it was also twice the depth you were trained for.



Were you insane?

No idea.

But you were deliberately risky and put the livelihood and lives of your guides in unnecessary danger.

I take issue with this. My whole point to this thread is that we truly did not know that it was a foolish dive at the time. Perhaps we should have, but we did not. Do you think I am lying? Everyone we spoke to, including multiple diving professionals, acted like it was no big deal. (With the exception of M, who is not that much more experienced than us and also a known drama queen.)

I know now that it was unacceptably risky, partly due to things I have read and heard afterward and partly due to more helpful comments on this thread.

As for endangering the lives and livelihoods of our guides, not one but two professional dive shops helped us get on this boat. The first one definitely knew our experience level because they certified us that very week. The second one knew when we called them up and specifically told them, if not before. Nobody was snookered in to taking us on this dive. I take responsibility for endangering myself, certainly. But these shops, and by extention their guides, knew what they were doing. Because we told them.

 

[Dr Wu]

I take issue with this. My whole point to this thread is that we truly did not know that it was a foolish dive at the time.

If your course materials and instructors never explained the maximum depth and conditions you were trained for you may want to consider asking for a refund and take the entire class over again.

Just ask yourself what other important information may have been omitted?

 

[Downing]

I'm a she.

Oops. Sorry, ma'am.

I have now edited my post to accurately reflect your gender.

 

[Ukalliq]

Things you heard since then?
What about things you learnt on your Open Water course?
Do you remember anything about 'recommended max depths' from your course theory and dives?
What does your certification card say on it?

My shiny new card came in the mail just the other day, so this is an easy question! It has my name, picture, diver #, birth date, cert date, instructor #, certifying shop name, number, address, and phone number. Then at the bottom it reads "This qualification meets ISO 24801-2 Diver Level 2 - Autonomous Diver Standard......etc." Nothing at all about depth limits.

But remember, I didn't have the actual card at the time of the dive.

The gist of what I learned in class was "You will be personally certified to dive to 60 feet. If you go any deeper than that, you should be under the supervision of a divemaster or instructor. 130 ft is the limit for recreational diving." Did I misunderstand? I passed the tests with flying colors.

From the discussions and apprehension that some of the divers felt before doing the dive, it must have been obvious that the dive was beyond their capabilities.

One diver, M. And he was equally concerned about kayaking and flying in a propeller plane. A didn't say anything about it until after the dive.

So, let me reshape the discussion, if I may, now that we've established that I was indeed completely insane. What can be done to prevent ignorant newbies like me from doing things like this? Do you think they should have required advanced OW certification? Deep diving specialty? A certain number of logged dives?

 

[scadreau]

My shiny new card came in the mail just the other day, so this is an easy question! It has my name, picture, diver #, birth date, cert date, instructor #, certifying shop name, number, address, and phone number. Then at the bottom it reads "This qualification meets ISO 24801-2 Diver Level 2 - Autonomous Diver Standard......etc." Nothing at all about depth limits.

But remember, I didn't have the actual card at the time of the dive.

The gist of what I learned in class was "You will be personally certified to dive to 60 feet. If you go any deeper than that, you should be under the supervision of a divemaster or instructor. 130 ft is the limit for recreational diving." Did I misunderstand? I passed the tests with flying colors.



One diver, M. And he was equally concerned about kayaking and flying in a propeller plane. A didn't say anything about it until after the dive.

So, let me reshape the discussion, if I may, now that we've established that I was indeed completely insane. What can be done to prevent ignorant newbies like me from doing things like this? Do you think they should have required advanced OW certification? Deep diving specialty? A certain number of logged dives?

Yes you misunderstood. Cruising to 70' fresh out of class with a good professional will probably not result in a big problem. Going to 130' is a totally different ball game. As others have mentioned. Air consumption and Narcosis are huge factors in dives to that depth. Had an OOA situation happened it would have likely lead to a 2nd because an AL80 would not supply 2 near panicked divers very long. This is when rapid ascents come into play etc. When the instructor (apparently glazed over) taught your depth limitations, the "going beyond 60'" part was more alluding to if you want to start getting a little deeper, you should have a dive professional with you. 116% deeper than your recommended limit is far from a little deeper.

I will not jump on the "buy a lotto ticket because you are lucky" bandwagon. There are gojillians of dives done a year with very few incidents. It is not that you were lucky that nothing went wrong (because the statistics say that you have to be very unlucky for something to go wrong). But...if something had, the consequence would have likely been much worse than if an experienced deep diver had the same problem.

That is why you should dive within your limits. One of those limits is depth. And the best thing about that one is that it is not subjective. I know as an OW diver that I shouldn't dive beyond 60'.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

So, let me reshape the discussion, if I may, now that we've established that I was indeed completely insane. What can be done to prevent ignorant newbies like me from doing things like this? Do you think they should have required advanced OW certification? Deep diving specialty? A certain number of logged dives?

Well, it's not 4/1, so either you are early or timing is everything!!!

The reality of the Warped World of Diving is that even if someone could get 3/4 of the operators to not take divers that aren't qualified on the signature dives in their regions, someone else will still take them, and with 3/4 not doing it it will likely be an operator who is less proficient!

 

[Scott L]

Well, it's not 4/1, so either you are early or timing is everything!!!

The reality of the Warped World of Diving is that even if someone could get 3/4 of the operators to not take divers that aren't qualified on the signature dives in their regions, someone else will still take them, and with 3/4 not doing it it will likely be an operator who is less proficient!

That's a interesting rant to some other question.

 

[TSandM]

You had a feeling it was foolish, and after you did it, you felt that even more -- and you are right. This is a classic case of not knowing what you did not know.

Bob (NW Grateful Diver) has a great article on his website that you ought to read. It will, I hope, have more impact, when you reflect on where you were and what you did.

 

[Dr Wu]

Do you think they should have required advanced OW certification? Deep diving specialty? A certain number of logged dives?

Those are all solutions that require other people to decide for you.

You have established you feel you are certified to dive to 130fsw. (in fact it appears you are certified to over 1000fsw)

Therefore I would advise you work on your assessment skills so you (and you alone) can establish if a particular dive is really for you.

 

[DevonDiver]

The gist of what I learned in class was "You will be personally certified to dive to 60 feet. If you go any deeper than that, you should be under the supervision of a divemaster or instructor. 130 ft is the limit for recreational diving." Did I misunderstand? I passed the tests with flying colors.

This wasn't a PADI course then?

The PADI course/manual/knowledge review & exam have questions about depth restrictions for OW, AOW and Deep certified divers.

The following phrase is also reiterated often during the course..and within the 'Statement of Safe Diving Practices' which you sign upon completion of the course ("I agree that I will")...

Always dive within the limits of your training and experience.

A DM is neither trained nor qualified to take you past those limits. If you knew the dive industry well, you'd also realise that many DMs aren't the 'dive gods' that novice divers assume them to be. Don't assume that a DM or instructor rating will automatically make that person safe to entrust your life too. The dive industry attracts more than enough muppets who just want to drink and fornicate in a sunny location...and their lack of personal responsibility extends well into their professional outlook and mindset.

130ft is the absolute limit for recreational diving. I don't think anyone would say that going to that absolute limit on your first non-training dive would be a good idea. It certainly doesn't represent any form of progressive development or conservative mindset.

I would predict that over time, as you do more diving and recieve more training, you are likely to become more and more shocked at the dangers you faced on that dive.

So, let me reshape the discussion, if I may, now that we've established that I was indeed completely insane. What can be done to prevent ignorant newbies like me from doing things like this? Do you think they should have required advanced OW certification? Deep diving specialty? A certain number of logged dives?

IMHO, the Blue Hole is an advanced recreational dive. To do that dive safely requires a knowledge of narcosis issues, extremely reliable buoyancy, emergency decompression procedures and precise gas planning and management.

In many parts of the world where I have dived, less advanced/demanding dive sites have required a minimum of AOW or Deep, plus 50 dives experience. In many cases, they would also require a prior 'check out' dive to confirm that the diver had the right capability for the dive.

I certainly wouldn't take a diver/s into that situation without first having a clear idea about their mindset, skill level and reliability....