Warning! Terrible experience with Happy Dive / Ankermi on Flores

[DevonDiver]

OK...here's what I found, this about right???

Yep. They have to advertise and sell only PADI courses. Must have been a paid-up member for at least 1 year. Must not have have a Quality Assurance issue for a while - such issues have to be extremely severe to reach a formal/actionable stage. Must advertise and promote a range of PADI goods, products and services for them. And done sufficient business in 12 months that they aren't a laughing-stock.

... oh yes, and you didn't mention... must pay PADI a hefty membership sum for the 'upgrade' status.

 

[Sideways]

Sorry, I edited probably as you were posting. The PADI website definition is.....

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The PADI 5 Star Dive Center membership level is awarded to progressive PADI Dive Centers that excel in providing dive consumers with a full range of diver education programs, equipment selection, and experience opportunities and that actively promote aquatic environmental awareness. A PADI 5 Star Dive Center is active in its community presenting a professional image consistent with, or better than, the norm of the marketplace. These dive centers embrace the PADI System of diver education and are committed to providing customers with quality products, services and experiences. [/FONT]

The bold statement is kind of how I perceived the rating. That you would receive a higher quality of service, product's and an overall better experience with a 5 star shop. Are you saying it's pretty much lip service? If so that's fine, just trying to convey what my perception was.

 

[highdesert]

We dive in PADI 5 star resorts and Ops, and because of that we expect a level of "Give a crap" to be exhibited by the Op, DM's or guides.

We knew the owners of a small, highly-rated resort/dive op on Roatan (they've since sold and moved on). They were not affiliated with any dive agency. He told me that he got a call from PADI, who essentially offered him a PADI rating, stars, palms, whatever, in exchange for X amount of $$$. No other conditions given. He could actually choose the level of his "rating" dependent upon the amount of $$$ he wanted to part with. He asked if someone was going to inspect his operation, certify that they were up to standards, etc. Nope. All he had to do was send money, and they'd send the rating. He declined.

Don't put a lot of faith in any "rating" granted to a resort/dive op by a certifying agency.

 

[Sideways]

I don't now, thanks to yours and Devon's insights. Pretty deceitful tactic by PADI though if you ask me, if they do absolutely zero to hold Ops to the standards they define. Oh well...what can you do!:cool2: Like I mentioned, my practice is to talk to the dive Ops prior to booking to get a feel and see if they are suited for our needs, along with help from this fine Board

 

[MMM]

Heh. Many, many years ago, I was diving in Puerta Vallejo, Mexico, not so long after I got my OW cert. We were on a cattle boat with a bunch of snorkellers, party-people etc. and I think there were only a couple of divers. On the SI, we got to chatting with the dive guide about what certs we all had. He told me he had NONE! But was working on getting his cert! Now it might have been a language thing and he was working on his DM cert and not his OW cert. But my jaw dropped.

Again, when selecting a dive operator to use, it is wise not to assume that your 'guide' is necessarily a qualified divemaster. In many parts of the world, diveguides are used to lead tours - often they aren't trained beyond open-water level, but may have extensive experience as divers. However, being a good diver is not the same thing as being a good dive supervisor...

 

[Fish-R-Man]

The PADI 5 Star Dive Center membership level is awarded to progressive PADI Dive Centers that excel in providing dive consumers with a full range of diver education programs, equipment selection, and experience opportunities and that actively promote aquatic environmental awareness. A PADI 5 Star Dive Center is active in its community presenting a professional image consistent with, or better than, the norm of the marketplace. These dive centers embrace the PADI System of diver education and are committed to providing customers with quality products, services and experiences.

The bold statement is kind of how I perceived the rating. That you would receive a higher quality of service, product's and an overall better experience with a 5 star shop. Are you saying it's pretty much lip service? If so that's fine, just trying to convey what my perception was.

Padi 5 star companies must be great!

I just had a friend of mine, his wife and 12 year old son on a trip to Coz. They wanted to go diving. The dad was taking a referral course and wife and son wanted to do a Discover scuba class (resort course). We arrived at the resort to find that the largest dive company in Cancun had taken over the shop I had used in the past at the resort. (I had called them some weeks prior to arrange the classes for them. Didn't catch that they had changed ownership.) We discussed the dive/instruction options with them and set up the classes for the next couple days. The next morning my wife and I went diving with another company that we always try and book with. When we returned, we hooked up with my buddy and I asked him how his class went. He proudly showed me his new temorary O/W cert card! Then he proceeded to tell me how well his son did, but that the wife had a problem clearing so she stayed up closer to the surface.

This Padi 5 star instructor they had was so good that he was able to teach an O/W course in two dives to 30' while tending to two resort course divers at the same time! No confined space dives. No prior training. They tried the gear on during the ride out to the first OW dive sight.

Fortunetly for my buddy, the DM/Instructor my wife and I dive with was ok with him diving with us the next few days and as my wife and I were the only divers he had on a couple of those days, he spent the time and energy to teach my friend the required skills and then some for his level of cert.

 

[jillybear]

I found this post entirely informative. Being a recently certified diver with not a ton of dives under my belt, it is interesting to read everyone's input. It really made me realize how much I still have to learn & be aware of. I will say that I wonder if some of you that have a lot of experience that commented are so far removed from being a "newbie" that maybe you can't remember how it was to have less than 50 dives under your belt. Many of you seem to have had so many more dives (& I am sure the learning that comes with more diving experience) than Nics. I would venture to guess that you aren't at your current knowledge level solely from your first 50 dives (or less).

My husband who was PADI OW Certified nearly 25 years ago but hadn't really dived since, audited my OW class last year as a refresher & then completed his Advanced OW. His assessment was that PADI had "dumbed-down" the course since he had originally taken it. So I am one of those that has been "certified" but I am a product of what my husband considered the "dumbed-down" course.

Anyway, I was certified in a freshwater quarry. My first ocean dives were in Hawaii in December. The first outfit we dove with (Reef Pirates on Oahu) were great. My husband & I called & talked to them ahead of time. I don't remember what my/our exact questions were but since I had never dived in the ocean I was a little anxious. The dive master led the dives. Our next dives in Hawaii were off Maui. We had a recommendation from Sean of Reef Pirates for Seth who happened to be with Mike Severin's Diving (also were great). Seth led my husband, myself, & another diver while the other dive master led the other 4 divers (2 of which were Navy Seals). Being that these 4 dives were my first major diving experiences outside the quarry I kind of thought (my naivete) that when you hired a dive outfit to dive a certain area that you always had a dive master accompany you down below. Fast forward to May when we were in Ft. Lauderdale & decided to go diving. No dive master that went below. No problem but after my 2 Hawaii dive experiences I just kind of thought that was how it was. Forward again to June at Scuba Club Cozumel, our dive master, Ariel, accompanied us on every boat dive in Cozumel. I guess my long-winded point is that we all have different training & dive experiences that go into shaping our expectations. Unfortunately, if you have been "spoiled" in your dive experiences you may not know to ask certain questions. The main lesson I have learned from this post is to take nothing for granted.

I am typically one that gives a company the benefit of the doubt before I would ever write negative comments online but I do appreciate reading about people's experiences online (both negative & positive). I also typically take negative comments with a grain of salt... I know there are different sides & you just can't please some people. As a newbie I do want to hear if an operator's equipment is sketchy. That is one thing that might make me a bit uneasy. Anyway, please be gentle with me when you poke holes in my post!

 

[supergaijin]

If more beginner divers were content to dive at shallower depths, the 'dumbed down' course that many recreational divers are taking today is entirely adequate IMO. 60'is a maximum depth for OW divers- a max depth is not the same as a max speed limit on a road. Many new divers need to get their first 15hrs underwater at no deeper than 40-45' IMHO. Learn proper control and procedures- turn what they were taught (not necessarily learned) in to a true motor-memory technique.

The course itself is adequate- that does not mean that the Dive Ops are teaching adequately or giving adequate time for beginners to practice the art of diving in benign conditions. Or that students are studying adequately or preparing themselves adequately for learning. However IMHO, the PADI OW course is adequate as it is written.

A single day OW course is a gross breach of standards according (again to PADI)- the company should be stopped IMO. PADI Scuba Diver however is possible in one day- I personally would estimate 2 -2.5 days for anyone with less watermanship than Patrick Duffy.

 

[vladimir]

I will say that I wonder if some of you that have a lot of experience that commented are so far removed from being a "newbie" that maybe you can't remember how it was to have less than 50 dives under your belt. Many of you seem to have had so many more dives (& I am sure the learning that comes with more diving experience) than Nics. I would venture to guess that you aren't at your current knowledge level solely from your first 50 dives (or less).

It's probably not typical, but a lot of us who were certified locally (which for me was in NYC waters) didn't see a divemaster underwater once our checkout dives were done. My first 50 dives were done independently (my buddy and I), and it wasn't until I traveled to Cozumel that I became acquainted with the shepherd-and-sheep format. Most training was more comprehensive when I was certified, perhaps because it was conceived as preparation for independent diving. The shorter training courses typically offered today are somewhat contingent upon the presence of a divemaster post-certification to ensure safety, in my opinion. Which works out fine in most cases, because that is how most new divers dive, and most divemasters are competent enough to keep them relatively safe.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

I will say that I wonder if some of you that have a lot of experience that commented are so far removed from being a "newbie" that maybe you can't remember how it was to have less than 50 dives under your belt. Many of you seem to have had so many more dives (& I am sure the learning that comes with more diving experience) than Nics. I would venture to guess that you aren't at your current knowledge level solely from your first 50 dives (or less).

My husband who was PADI OW Certified nearly 25 years ago but hadn't really dived since, audited my OW class last year as a refresher & then completed his Advanced OW. His assessment was that PADI had "dumbed-down" the course since he had originally taken it. So I am one of those that has been "certified" but I am a product of what my husband considered the "dumbed-down" course.

I am not sure that any one of the divers that have a lot of experience, that are willing to take the time to try and have informative posts on this forum will have forgotten what its like to be a "newbie". Most of us will be in situations where we will offer help (mentor) newer divers and relive the same experiences we started with through them. My first day of cave training, I felt like a rank beginner. It was all new to me. Thankfully I had a patient instructor. As far as the learning process. It won't matter whether it's 50 or 500 or 5000 dives. You can can learn something new on every dive.

I had the same experience as your husband. I kept the same cert level for many years. I took an OW and AOW with my wife a few years ago so that she had a buddy in her class and I wanted to see what was new. I also felt that the requirements of the "new" classes were way less than the first classes I took. I still remember the first day in the pool. You had to show that you could swim a couple hundred yards in a certain time period. We lost a couple of the group just on that requirement alone......