Warning deep "bounce" dives warning

[down4fun]

If you are new or old or not yet certified and drawn to the deep...I understand.

Good or bad I too was drawn to the deep. But there is a way to get there safely and that is through proper training, including gear selection and redundancy and experience. Diving is no different than any other group of people. There are different mind sets within the community and it's up to you who you follow. I hope you will make the safe choice and listen to those who deep dive safely through a proven and accepted means of training. And not follow the yahoos who actions have proven fatal to others.

I am not claiming to be some expert, but i do have little experience at this and there are countless others with way more experience than me who are willing to share our journey and knowledge so that others can get there safely, if that's your desired destination. And if you are one of the ones for whom the deep holds no intrest, that's kewl too. Dive on and be safe.

It's common for newly certified divers to be attracted to the idea of going deep. What they need to understand is that the deeper you go, the more important it becomes to be prepared to deal with problems at depth ... the farther away the surface becomes, the less of an option going to the surface becomes. That is the reason why new divers should not be encouraged to go on deep dives ... and the primary problem I have with AOW being taught directly after OW ... it gives new divers the impression they are somehow "qualified" for deep dives, when they haven't yet developed the skills or mindset to plan and perform a deep dive with an acceptable margin of safety.

Risk is something that a lot of entry-level classes gloss over ... maybe because they don't want to scare people. But I think it's important to emphasize the risks associated with scuba diving ... as well as emphasizing that those risks are magnified by increasing depth. Bounce dives are seen by many as a "shortcut" to setting depth records. The reality is that the price for taking the shortcut is to sacrifice your safety margins. If all goes right, it can be an exhilarating dive. If something goes wrong, it can be a terrifying experience ... if not downright fatal.

New divers really do need to hear that ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

you quoted me and then responded with the above response. I am not sure if you were pro/con what i said or just adding too?

I am in no way saying that deep diving is without risk. Nor am I endorsing any new diver run right out and do deep dives. But I think it is a bit unrealistic to use the "just say no" response to newbies who talk of depth. I think it is more realistic and effective to talk to them honestly about the necessary training, the length of time it takes to safely progress to deeper depths. And in case I am not clear I was NOT endorsing bounce dives. I was saying that depth can be achieved via proper training, gear, and experience...technical dives via technical training.

The take away message, which i guess wasn't as clear as I had hoped, was that:
1)I acknowledge and accept some divers are drawn to the deep.
2) You can try to get there following the yahoos who talk of bounce dives and endanger your life or you can seek proper training and accept that deep diving is a journey that takes training, redundant gear, and experience.

 

[redacted]

Well, I do have to apologize as I did not (and don't often) look at what forum I am responding in. (I do wish we had the old capability of omitting select forums from "New" searches.) In any case, I am not a fan of rules without reason. Even with kids, I prefer "don't touch, it's hot" over "don't touch".

As far as addressing the concept of SAC and its use, I believe OW instruction is dropping the ball if they don't introduce the concept of SAC, what kinds of values a new diver might experience and how it will change, and what you can do with that information. Even dRiver's Ed classes address trip planning including gas consumption. Maybe the POI could just replace one day of sale's pitches with an illustration of gas planning. I would not expect an OW student to be able to do it. But it would help to drive home the importance of Boyle's law and also address changes students can expect to quickly see as they gain experience. It surely should be of at least as much use as learning about emergency decompression in OW ( yeah, I know - liability).

 

[Tigerman]

...
Should we introduce "toe and heel" and hand brake turn for beginner driving?
I believe one small step at a time.
...

Handbreak turns are infact taught here in the winter driving course which is a mandatory class to get your drivers license.
Theire taught because its a good place to start giving you a feel for how a car can and inevitably will act on slippery roads and it can also be a handy tool to correct it..

I have measured inexperienced divers with a "stressed" consumption rate as high as 2.8 cf/min. Imagine sharing air on a 100-foot ascent with that guy ... :shocked2:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Been there, fortunatly didnt need to share air with him..

Thistlegorm, Red Sea - Sometime in the recent past.
This is a VERY square profile dive - Me and another diver was teamed up with a 3rd that SHOULD be fairly qualified - He had 70ish dives, but time would tell us that it wasnt in quite the same conditions..

* We descend directly down to the stern of the ship (30ish meters).
* Mr X. start looking on his gauges a lot.
* He start looking a bit wound up and we cant really communicate too well with him.
* He taps his gauges and shoots off to the nearest line - Which is totally wrong boat, but we figure its better to let him get to a line thats wrong than stress around in the fairly murky visibility, and figure itll calm him down a bit to have a line to hold on to.
* When he reach the line he do fortunately calm down a bit and start ascending at an acceptable rate.
* Getting closer to the surface he dont look up and is about to ascend with no safety stop straight into the propeller above him.
* Stopping his ascent and making him look at me and "breathing with him" to calm him down Im able to get another air reading, which is suficcient to do a safety stop, which we complete with no further incident and we surface safely - at the stern of the wrong dive boat, but who care about the 20m surface swim in this case.

He was on a 15l steel tank going in at 200 bar and goes out with 50 bar in his tank - which by itself is fine.
That means hes used 3000 - 750 = 2250 liters of air in 20 minutes, making for an average of 112,5 liters - 3,97 cf per minute during the 20-minute dive. I cant say for sure what the average depth was so I wont make any random guess as of the average SAC, but itll be BAD.

Yes, having to share air with him coulda been "interesting"...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

you quoted me and then responded with the above response. I am not sure if you were pro/con what i said or just adding too?

... building off of something you said about being "drawn to the deep" ... many new divers are. Most do so with some semblance of forethought and preparation. Some don't ... often because they have more experienced divers telling them it's no big deal. For the experienced diver, perhaps it's not ... but it's a very different picture for the diver who is just learning, and doesn't even yet suspect what they don't know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[down4fun]

... building off of something you said about being "drawn to the deep" ... many new divers are. Most do so with some semblance of forethought and preparation. Some don't ... often because they have more experienced divers telling them it's no big deal. For the experienced diver, perhaps it's not ... but it's a very different picture for the diver who is just learning, and doesn't even yet suspect what they don't know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

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