want new kit ...film/no flash/good optics

[blacknet]

Hello,

Ok sure anyone can disagree with what I say, that's fine I have no problem with that. One thing I should mention is how many of you actually think outside the box? I see few hands in the masses. It's actually quite common for people to get defensive when someone comes along and talks outside the box, then the masses get confused easily. How many here have tried b/w underwater? How many have actually successfully done marine mammals? Now how many have successfully done b/w marine mammals? How many have tried ambient macro? Again not many at all, in fact many people think it can’t be done. How many of you have successfully done 30+ second strobe exposures?

I do classify the original poster as thinking outside the box and I feel ashamed to be a part of the underwater photography community for the cold welcome he received for making this post.

Scuba takes a lot of skill, Photography takes even more skill. Somewhere in the process many gets lots along the way, many get hung up on the gear while many get hung up on techniques. Some have threw names like elitist and so forth that make be fitting. This is because like any dedicated photography student I take my photography very seriously. I study the works of the great Ansel Adams and use many of his teachings in my work both above and below the water.

OH almost forgot, vicky, that's not the main reason we don't use strobe with marine mammals. Yes that's a good reason but it's not the #1 reason.

Ed

 

[vicky]

I live in the middle-east, close to the Red-Sea and the only mammals that are abundant in our area are humans and dolphins. I have some experience taking photos of both species with ambient light. Dolphins are mostly gray (at least the ones in our neighbourhood) and humans are most of the time clad with black neoprene robes when underwater. So the strobe is not a real advantage in this case. Sometimes I want to "freeze" the light rays, or their motion so I use a speed that the camera cannot sync with my strobe anyway (e.g. 1/250)..

I also tried B&W and without a strobe I got really bad contrasts, so I tried several filters and types of film. With some photos I was satisfied, others were a dissapointment, but that's the way to learn..

Nowadays I use only slides- mostly Velvia and Sensia (Can't wait for the 100ASA Velvia coming later this year ) and the reason I don't take too many "ambient light" photos is mainly because of Nature conservation: I can't see how someone can take a 30seconds exposure without using a tripod or resting the camera against something. Then, most probably the diver too needs to rest or hold onto something. In our region this "something to hold on" is usually corals and I don't like holding or resting a camera on them. No photo is worth killing a coral, even if it is the most famous photographer taking the photo. So I stcik to speeds that allow me to shoot "hand-held" and if there is not enough light then there is no photo and the corals stay alive...

 

[SubMariner]

Nature conservation: I can't see how someone can take a 30seconds exposure without using a tripod or resting the camera against something. Then, most probably the diver too needs to rest or hold onto something. In our region this "something to hold on" is usually corals and I don't like holding or resting a camera on them

Then I guess you haven't seen many good u/w photographers.

Are there u/w photographers who do this dastardly deed? Yes! Just as there are regular divers who have little or no buoyancy control.

In most cases the good photographers are also staunch conservationists who would be appalled that you would even suggest that they cannot take a picture without damaging the u/w environment. For example, Paul Humann & Ned DeLoach started R.E.E.F. (*Reef Environmental Education Foundation):

http://www.reef.org/


~SubMariner~

 

[NotoriousBOB]

I feel ashamed to be a part of the underwater photography community for the cold welcome he received for making this post.

Hey not so harsh! I'd read many threads in this place and knew what i was letting myself in for

I like people to be honest and passionate about their photography otherwise it's all nicey nicey........bleh!

Still up in the air about the kit though!........now i'm thinking 'i have some Nikon lenses, maybe a cheap 801 and a housing?????'......................the plot thickens!

thanks all

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

Any good photographer worth their salt will know where to touch on a reef and where not to touch. In fact it's quite simple. You can be reef safe and take long exposures and use a tripod and/or ancor somewhere.

Using b/w film is better suited for u/w than color film, both slide and negative. With the right technique you won't need filters, you have a huge filter already, the ocean.

I use sensia 400, Provia/F 100 and tmx. BTW David Doubilet uses an amber filter to get the same results we get with out filters.

As for what kit to go with, I just grabed a nikonos 15mm NEW lens with less than 10 dives on it for $700.

Ed

 

[TheAvatar]

1. Ansel is the G-d of photography, not just a saint ut:

2. Having total control over your medium and understanding exactly how it works will give you the maximum ability to document your surroundings and express your creativity through your work. That key principle is part of the the essence of Ansel Adams and his work. He knew how he wanted things to look, whether it was like what he saw with his eyes, or what he wanted with his mind, he could create images to his own liking because he understood how. His teachings apply both above and beneath the surface (except maybe the one on studio photography). It will save you time and allow you to make better images. Note: I by no means have mastered this.

3. I believe Photography means "writing with light" if directly translated (this not necissarily the definition), but I do prefer painting to writing for the definition. Snapshooters write. Photographers paint. Anyone know how to say that in greek?

4. Vicky:

You can paint as much as you want with blues...Or, you can paint with an almost full spectrum- using a strobe

This seems to imply that pictures that show the full spectrum are *always* better than monochromatic pictures. This is certainly not true. (How do you think the ocean below 10 feet appears to fishies who haven't managed to smite a diver and take their dive light? ) It all depends on how you do things and what your goal is . If that was what you were trying to say, that logic would cary to say that black and white images are inferior to color images. I'm sure you didn't mean that. I don't mean to attack you, just to have you think twice about the subject.

5. I think people should try to experiment with ideas before simply dismissing them. Most underwater photography books that I have seen are in the box books. "Grab a strobe and go." Think outside the box! I have to agree with blackent on that point. Most people never think to disable the flash on their point and shoot cameras on land, much less af/ae lock a proper spot and recompose, not realizing that doing so can greatly improve their images.

6. An interesting side not, for those who do not know: B&W photographers often use a red or yellow or other colored filter even though they are shooting on black and white film in order to alter the amount of or even prevent entirely parts of the spectrum from reaching the film in order to change the contrast and appearance of objects.

7. Some people seem to be missing the main point blacknet was trying to make on the MMPA. Strobes upset the marine mammals. Play nice... how would you like it if the seal flashed a massive pair of strobes in your eyes? I guess the fishies don't care... or we dont care if make the fishies see spots... they are cute enough to care that much about. ut:

8. Expanding on point 2 and what NotoriousBOB said, consider turning off the flash for a bit to help you truly understand your medium, especially if you are using your flash on auto. You can't possibly control your exposure if you are relying on TTL to figure out your flash. It adds many unknown variables to your equation making most attempts to understand the exact impact of many other adjustments and conditions meaningless, especially if you are trying to use a modified zone system. On the other hand, manual flash can be a true pain if you you have a bunch of other things to think about. I admit I use ETTL /w FEL and FEC a lot.