Wakatobi or ???

[Melmoth]

For those that have dived Bunaken and Wakatobi how do they compare in relation to marine/ coral diversity?

I went to Bunaken and Lembeh last year. The most amazing critters I've ever seen at Lembeh and very nice wall dives teaming with fish at Bunaken. If you are after beautiful soft corals, walls, and good drifts combined with macro but not much larger stuff (Bump Head Parrot fish being about the largest) then Wakatobi is hard to beat.That said, I didn't see a single pelagic there (saw a few sharks and rays at Bunaken) and while I saw a couple of ornate ghost pipe fish on one dive there, I saw about a dozen over 5 days at Lembeh. Been a while since I've been to Wakatobi (6 years+ ) so things may have changed. I know the accommodation has been spruced up. Wakatobi felt a bit like a land based liveaboard when we were there. It is more luxurious now I hear but still pretty intense diving. We stayed at Kungkungan bay resort (Lembeh) and Kima Bajo (Bunaken) both of which I would recommend. Not as luxurious as Wakatobi now is but very nice places to be based. If you have never dived in Indonesia you are in for a treat either way. (If you go to Wakatobi, consider combining it with Bali, there is good diving there at Padang Bai, Tulumben and Menjangen.) I've just booked a very nice looking Komodo liveaboad (Arenui). The price is about the same as Wakatobi (cheaper if you factor in their airfare).

 

[Wasage]

Everyone talks about how expensive it is to dive in the Wakatobi. Until recently this was true as there was only the Wakatobi Divers exclusive resort, based on Tomia Island. Now there is a new dive operator, Wasage Divers which offers affordable diving throughout the Wakatobi Marine National Park on its liveaboard, or from the remote and rustic Hoga Island. There are also some great new dive sites around Buton Island in South East Sulawesi. We can show you all sorts from critters to big stuff too, and as many people have noted, the Wakatobi has amazing diving to offer.

Check out our website if you're interested! Its www (dot) wasagedivers (dot) com

(sorry but as a new member i'm not allowed to post links yet!)

 

[Wayan]

Bunaken / Bangka some of the best Walls in Indonesia, yes wakatobi has walls and lots of them. only a few pinnacles which are not always diveable.

As for Wasage Divers - Liveaboard mentioned by Wasage

mmmmm I would not be happy to head up to 420 metres on the way to Bau Bau that soon after diving the previous day (quoted Itinerary from website Day 7: Arrive in Pasarwajo at 6.30am. Jeep to Bau-Bau. Depart for Makassar 10am)

Note they state able to 3 dives a day plus night dive for 5 days. I would want and 24 hours before heading up to altitude.

And certainly not year around diving out of Pasarwajo on a LOB and this goes for all of the Wakatobi area.

Some people really enjoy Wakatobi others (like me) do not.

If you are after walls the two main options Wakatobi / Bunaken/Bangka.

That time of year is also great for Komodo / Raja Empat / Ambon (Maluku) / Bali

 

[Indah]

Wayan, 420 metres is not really altitude. The Padi rules were talking about 2400 metres. Same pressure as the cabin pressure on a airplane. Often this is mixed up with the rules about diving at altitude, which is above 300 metres.

 

[Wayan]

Wayan, 420 metres is not really altitude. The Padi rules were talking about 2400 metres. Same pressure as the cabin pressure on a airplane. Often this is mixed up with the rules about diving at altitude, which is above 300 metres.

Actually 420 metres is altitude thus tables for diving. So following your philosophy and argument I guess it safe for anyone to go to what 1000 metres after diving with no problems.

To take a quote from Dr Simon Mitchell (leading Hyperbaric dr is this part of the world) when talking about altitude after diving.

"There is no firm and clearly validated policy on this, but it is commonly held that if a road journey after diving does not exceed 300m altitude then problems are very unlikely, even with relatively short delays between diving and driving. Like all rules in life, there are cases that provide the exception, but the 300m rule has generally proven fairly robust. Clearly, common sense must prevail, and a diver would be foolish indeed to exit the water from a provocative dive and immediately drive straight to 300m.

Where roads exceed 300m it is probably wise to impose some degree of delay between diving and making the journey. Unfortunately, there are no published guidelines to help with such decision-making. The flying after diving rules are almost certainly too conservative."

There are cases where people who have travelled to 300m and have had DCI hits. (I have treated these in the chamber)

As Dr Simon Mitchell says there are no clear rules. But it would be wise to go with what works most of the time.

Need to remember how all the the rules of diving came into being originally, best guess on what information that had available and it seemed to work (acceptable risk).

As can been seen by the change in ascent rates when more data is collected a better revisions to these old rules are changed

Your call. I would not do it and that is my call.

 

[Wasage]

Hi guys,

I feel the need to defend our diving establishment a little, and stress that we are very safety conscious. We are run by 3 PADI Instructors and we follow the PADI standards and Procedures and we strive to run a professional, friendly and service oriented business.

For the record, we do not offer night dives every night of our liveaboard trip, and we certainly wouldn’t make a night dive on the last night of a liveaboard trip as we are well aware of surface interval standards. I believe PADI recommends a minimum of 18 hours before flying after multiple diving (such as a liveaboard trip). We offer 3 dives a day plus additional night dives. However we do not state that additional night dives are available every night of the trip. Sorry if the information on our website led you to believe this, and I will look into making things clearer. When people contact us to make a reservation we discuss their trip and design a custom itinerary to suit their requirements, and we also take into account the time of year in which they wish to take their trip. As rightly stated earlier, not all areas of the Wakatobi can be reached all year round due to weather conditions and the large wave season, so the divesites that our liveaboard trips include vary throughout the year. Please also note that nowhere do we say that liveaboard trips are available from Pasarwajo all year round.

Also please be aware that we plan all trips so that the 3rd dive on the last day of the trip finishes by 4pm (first dive 7am, second dive 11am, third dive 3pm). If divers then need to fly at 10am the next morning, they will have had an 18 hour surface interval. Also this would mean divers take the road trip from Pasarwajo to Bau-Bau (which reaches an altitude of 420m) after already having had a surface interval of 15 hours. An altitude of 420m is not very extreme (nothing like the cabin pressure in an airplane – which is equivalent to 2400m altitude), and so far none of our guests have had issues with this, and all have felt comfortable with our safety standards. Also to further my point, as quoted by Dr Simon Mitchell in Wayan’s post:

“Where roads exceed 300m it is probably wise to impose some degree of delay between diving and making the journey. The flying after diving rules are almost certainly too conservative."

With this in mind, we feel a surface interval of 15 hours is sufficient before making a road trip to an altitude of 420m. Of course if you feel uncomfortable with this Wayan, then as you stated that is your call.

 

[Mossman]

“Where roads exceed 300m it is probably wise to impose some degree of delay between diving and making the journey. The flying after diving rules are almost certainly too conservative."

With this in mind, we feel a surface interval of 15 hours is sufficient before making a road trip to an altitude of 420m. Of course if you feel uncomfortable with this Wayan, then as you stated that is your call.

Exactly why safety stops are supposed to be optional, rather than mandatory. If one does a very slow ascent from 15' to the surface, decompression can be improved versus a stop at 15' for a few minutes, followed by a relatively rapid ascent to the surface as I see so many divers ignorantly do.

Air travel preceded by a certain waiting time is equivalent to the rapid ascent following a safety stop. A handful of people each year continue to get bent because they still harbor enough residual nitrogen in their slow tissues that gets bounced out too fast by the extremely rapid ascent up to a 6,000-8,000 foot equivalent in the usual pressurized aircraft even after waiting 18-24 hours as recommended by the various agencies.

On the other hand, unless the road is extremely straight and steep, most drives to altitude occur over a far greater amount of time than the airplane's quick ascent. The slower vehicular ascent allows for more gradual offgassing. Some GUE folks used to (and maybe still do?) brag that they could fly with their hair still wet after a dive due to their "special" decompression techniques. Driving to altitude is that sort of "special" technique that can aid decompression rather than cause problems. Even better, suck on deco gas during the drive!

 

[Wayan]

Hi guys,

I feel the need to defend our diving establishment a little, and stress that we are very safety conscious. We are run by 3 PADI Instructors and we follow the PADI standards and Procedures and we strive to run a professional, friendly and service oriented business.
l.

Hi Wassage sorry if this was taken as an attack, certainly not intended that way.

The main point is that there is not enough qualified information out there for this. even in the Flying after diving studies where the new recommendations (note recommendations) were dereived there were some incidents of DCI. It all comes down to what is thought as acceptable risk. And For me I still would want to wait.