Vortex revisited

[doakc]

I did read that earlier post. Just stating what was on the show. Since a shovel was there (if it belonged to Ben or not) it proves that the end of the cave was reachable by at least 3 divers. Edd, the woman, and whoever left the shovel.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I had that same conversation with Edd last year when I was down there. He sounded pretty convinced that nobody had been through that crack in a very long time ... if ever. I think the way things get edited for TV production sometimes takes comments out of context and makes them seem to say something completely different than was intended.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

You should have been there talking to the investigator, even the Investigator could not comprehend that at that time. He looked at us and said well he has to be there. I almost choked on the water i was drinking. Not sure where Harry stands on that today.

 

[doakc]

kevin- what are are you referring to when you say "that crack"? At the end of the cave or a certain part?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I did read that earlier post. Just stating what was on the show. Since a shovel was there (if it belonged to Ben or not) it proves that the end of the cave was reachable by at least 3 divers. Edd, the woman, and whoever left the shovel.

Actually that shovel was at least two restrictions away from where Edd stopped. Another fact is that Bens tanks would had to have come off some time back. Edd had small tanks and Ben had much larger tanks. Edds tanks were scraping on top and bottom.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

kevin- what are are you referring to when you say "that crack"? At the end of the cave or a certain part?

Could you quote the post please? Im not sure what you are referring too.

 

[mike_s]

I did read that earlier post. Just stating what was on the show. Since a shovel was there (if it belonged to Ben or not) it proves that the end of the cave was reachable by at least 3 divers. Edd, the woman, and whoever left the shovel.

The shovel wasn't at the end of the Cave. (or the furthest point in the cave that was searched).


TV shows don't always give all the facts or the best representation of the facts.


EDIT: Looks like Kev already answered that.

 

[doakc]

Sorry Kevin, looks like someone else said it:

"I had that same conversation with Edd last year when I was down there. He sounded pretty convinced that nobody had been through that crack in a very long time"

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Sorry Kevin, looks like someone else said it:

"I had that same conversation with Edd last year when I was down there. He sounded pretty convinced that nobody had been through that crack in a very long time"

Ok, i know what he meant. When Edd went as far as possible, the passage is very small with what we call restrictions. This is smaller than average places to squeeze through. He said the last one, looked like a crack cause it was only about 4 inches tall or so. Technical term would be restriction.

 

[doakc]

Thanks Kevin. So the last one- is that the last one Edd made it through or the last one he encountered before turning? 4 inches- that is crazy.

 

[boulderjohn]

As far as diving goes, I know nothing. And I am not looking to argue, I am discussing a tragic incident that has sparked some intrigue.

Since you are new here and not a diver, I will assume that you have not read previous threads about this and have a level of knowledge about cave diving similar to others who have never done it. I am going to make some comments here that I hope will be useful to your understanding.

I am certified at the full cave level. To get to that level, I had to go through a series of courses that took me a long time to complete. Before I began those courses, I was a certified technical diver who had already mastered a number of skills taught during cave classes. At present, I am also fully certified for Trimix (very deep on mixes including helium), and I am a technical diving instructor. With that level of training, I would not dream of going to the places Edd went in search of Ben. That would be beyond my skill level, and it would be a foolish risk for me to do that. I don't think I could do it if I felt so foolishly inclined. The gap between me and what I am able to do and what a diver like Edd is able to do is simply that great. You should know that divers like Jill Heinerth are also extremely talented. I don't know Kevin much at all, but I am going to make a similar assumption about hm as well, based upon what I do know.

In comparison, Ben had little training in technical diving, and no training in cave diving. In another thread we saw video of Ben diving not long before his disappearance. He simply did not display strong skills in that video, which is what you would expect from someone at his level of training and experience.

Keep that in mind when you talk about a beginning diver going to places that only the most highly skilled cave divers can go. It is inconceivable to me that a diver at that skill level could go there without leaving a trace.