Vintage "tech" diving setup

[Jimmer]

I'm really interested in setting up a vintage set of gear with double 72's. I've got a pair currently that are from the mid 60's that I've been using with a modern isolation manifold for mid range dives. I've been considering swapping that manifold to a set of al80's and setting the 72 up vintage. What was the standard double manifold from back then? Would it something like a Sherwood style dual outlet yoke, or a single outlet J valve style?

Also, where is the best place to pick up a decent double hose reg without breaking the bank?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[captain]

The double manifolds of the time would be a single outlet with 500 psi J reserve. U S Divers early manifold was of a 3 piece design and later ones were 1 piece. As for a double hose reg without breaking the bank exactly how much is the bank willing to spend. Sometimes you get lucky and can find one at a garage or estate sale cheap but then you have to rebuild it and more than likely end up spending at least a couple of hundred for new hoses, diaphragm, rebuild kit, etc. Or you can look here for one ready to go.

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[Luis H]

Double tank manifold:

In the 60’s and 70’ it would have been a single outlet (probably with a reserve, J) and the most common were a US Divers then followed by Voit, Dacor, Sportsways, Scubapro, White Stag, etc. Not necessarily in that order. OBTW the Dacor and a few others were made by Sherwood Selpac before they actually started selling under their own name.

I think it was in the early 80’s when Sherwood when they introduced the dual outlet double manifold. IMO this is a great “vintage tech” valve. I have one and I am in the market for another one. With a double hose you want the second outlet facing back.


To get a double hose you can get one on eBay (taking some risk), shop locally, etc. and then rebuild it…if you want you can even have it re-chromed.

Another alternative is at VintageDoubleHose.com you can get one totally redone. It will cost you more at first, but when you add all the parts and the rebuilt you end up with a better deal…unless you start with a real inexpensive initial investment and you do the work yourself. Doing the work yourself is always satisfying, but I normally would recommend that on your second double hose ( this can be addicting). If you are already a DIY, then this are super easy to work on.

You should join us at VDH.

 

[Nemrod]

Vintage tech is sorta undefined. It could mean about anything. In the 60s there were no dual outlet valves in common use. Divers needing redundancy would use independent doubles or manifolded doubles, single outlet, with a large piggy backed pony. The excellent Sherwood manifold came along in the late 70s or later so it is not really vintage but who cares, I have a couple of them and I am also looking for yet another. I also have a twin outlet Nemrod manifold and a single outlet USD (60s) and a Nemrod triple (60s). An edge-y diver in the late 60s might have had a Fenzy BC, center outlet twin 72s and a small pony or not.

For a double hose, as has been mentioned, ebay or vdh or vss or the trade sections of those forums. For actual diving use you want ONLY an Aqua Master, Voit Navy etc. A good Mistral can be fun too but is somewhat limited in the "tech" configuration.

You have to remember, there were no BCs in the 60s to speak of, they did not exist, vintage tech divers would be without a BC. Even into the early 70s BCs were not common and if they were used there were only the horsecollar type, most were manual/oral inflate but a few had power inflators. One of my favorite vintage tech rigs is a doubles set of 50s/72s with Sherwood manifold, RAM on center, Voit MR12 on LH post, Dacor or SeaTec BC (vintage style horsecollars) with power inflator. Get a vintage doubles harness from Peanut King on ebay or a singles harness from Simmonbeans on vdh. They work fine without a BC or with a horsecollar. Where do you get a horsecollar BC, well, good luck with that. The SeaTec is still made but finding one is not easy.

There is another form of diving, I dare to mention it, eclectic, mix old and new, dive a double hose with modern wings and plates etc, can be fun and very practical. That is what I do much of the time.

N

 

[TN Traveler]

There is another form of diving, I dare to mention it, eclectic, mix old and new, dive a double hose with modern wings and plates etc, can be fun and very practical. That is what I do much of the time.

N

As N says, this is a great way to dive, especially in colder water. Using a modern BP/W, mask and wetsuit with a double hose, especially a Phoenix conversion, makes cold water diving much easier.

But if the water is warm, use of a simple plastic backpak (or just a harness) and a horsecollar makes for a great way to dive. See the thread about Bouyancy Control in the Sea Hunt Era - this is scuba diving at it's ultimate.

 

[pescador775]

Jimmer, you will have to make it up as you go. There is no precedent or authority for this, just opinion which is not based on safety or suitability of use stats since there are no two rigs the same. The centerpiece would have to be the two hose regulator. Going tech is not cheap because the only two hose for which there is good support is the DA Aqua Master and Royal Aqua Master and even these are inadequate in the original form. There are many advanced, aftermarket pieces available for these meaning service or repair can be done routinely. More importantly, there is a "tech" conversion, and since this is a tech thing, it will be advisable to purchase an Aquamaster regulator and convert it to a multiport configuration with the "Phoenix" high pressure block (nozzle) available from Vintage Double Hose. There are scads of people who can mentor or do the conversion completely.

The second key piece is the center manifold. Using a twin post of modern type is not an option. Nemrod advises you on the Sherwood with center port and second port on one post. Getting the J valve config is optional but can be found on EBay from time to time. If the second port is not needed then purchase a US Divers solid bar manifold favored by the US Navy and commercial divers in the day.

The BC can be anything from a modern set of "wings" to horse collar type of 70's vintage. As mentioned already, note that the standard Navy Harness cannot be used with the Phoenix due to stand off. A pack must be used with the Phoenix. Suggest go modern or if vintage, a Scubapro double pack from the early 70's. This will have galvanized double bands and no handgrips of any kind.

Fins are optional but Jet Fins might be a logical pick.

Cast lead weights of course.

Oval window mask which are available on EBay.

Single skin, nylon in wetsuit with beavertail apron available from numerous sources such as JMJ, Helios and boutique fabricators which the vintage crowd can advise.

Pesky

 

[Nemrod]

Actually you can dive the Phoenix with a vintage single harness. The 6.9 inch diameter tanks however will result in the top can being slightly up against your back. With a 7.25 inch diameter tank it works very well. Well, vintage harnesses are not available in 7.25 size huh--well---get the "travel" single harness type which accomadates the aluminum 80 perfectly and is comfortable and fnctional with the Phoenix. Anyways, I can dive the Phoenix on a vintage SeaHunt single harness. It works OK but you may feel the regulator against your back. With a 6.9 tank like a steel 72 or double steel 72s, as Pesc mentions, that might not work for some people. The regulator center mounted on 6.9 doubles will sit relatively low and the longer Phoenix nozzle may have it up agaisnt your back. Luis, have you tried that yet? I think he has.

If you use a Sherwood manifold you don't need a Phoenix conversion because the reverse mounted single hose on the left post carries all of the inflator, spg and octo duties--realizing of course vintage divers don't use octos or inflators because they are not vintage--lol. You need a low profile first for that like the old Voit MR12 or I also like the Mark V (clones) with the turret. These provide excellent hose routing.

The Sherwood is available with and without the reserve function, I have one of each, I prefer the non-reserve model. These are a modular three piece valve. I mentioned have a NOS three piece USD manifold, I like it because it is sooooooo vintage but as Luis mentions, the single piece USD manifolds are very desireable.

N

 

[pescador775]

Vintage Navy harness in 7.25 size is available from sources like EBay. The Navy used them from the 1950's with non-magnetic aluminum tanks, etc. Modern versions have stainless steel bands which are made of thin metal and tend to cut into the webbing. Also, gaining an 1/8 inch standoff by using thicker tanks is of questionable utility as to comfort and suitability. However, it is my understanding that we are discussing twin steel tanks. Using the Sherwood manifold for purposes Nemrod mentioned would be a cheaper option than the Phoenix conversion. Alternately, not doing the conversion promptly should be seen in light that the conversion parts may or may not be available later.

 

[Jimmer]

This is pretty interesting reading. I'm leaning towards a Sherwood dual outlet manifold with a Mk5 clone that I currently own as the backup to an Aquamaster. It'll be an interesting project I'll just be fiddling along with all summer getting it together. One thought I had was to use a bare harness with no horsecollar to keep the appearance of vintage, but use my drysuit for buoyancy. Does anyone do this?

 

[Luis H]

The regulator center mounted on 6.9 doubles will sit relatively low and the longer Phoenix nozzle may have it up agaisnt your back. Luis, have you tried that yet? I think he has.


-realizing of course vintage divers don't use octos or inflators because they are not vintage--lol.

N

Yes, I have a set of vintage twin 40’s (1800 psi) that I use with a Sherwood double manifold and Navy style harness. I got new straps from Allan to replace the old stiff nylon straps, but it is a great rig. I have normally used it with one of my Phoenix and the flat surface of the can does touch right between my shoulder blades. I can’t think of a better location for a double hose. In order to breathe easier I would need surgery.

Actually it is very comfortable. If I was going to do push-ups in dry land, I might feel different, but in the water it is weightless and when I am walking it feels fine also.


Oh, about the octopus not being vintage, you are kind of correct, but not exactly. On the other hand the alternate single hose second stage is vintage. Last weekend at Boston Sea Rovers, we saw a presentation from the Eastern Divers Association (New Jersey / New York wreck divers) from the 60’s and 70’s (I think also the 50’s, not sure). Many of the old pictures had them using double 72’s with a double hose regulator and a pony bottle (converted O2 tank) on the back with an alternate regulator out of the pony.

I also have a book about ice diving with a few old black and white pictures of divers with Aqua Masters and/or Royal Aqua Masters with an alternate second stage attached to the hookah port. I have also seen similar pictures in an old article about ice diving. Therefore, I am not sure that we can say that the alternate second and the pony bottle are not vintage since they have been around since the 60’s. We just didn’t use them in the Caribbean until the mid to late 70’s.