Views on playing with or harrasing marine life

[scubaxris]

Not that I'm defending his actions with the Angel Sharks, but isn't the fact that he took the video down an indication that he may not be the "jackass" that you claim him to be? I don't know him personally, so I can't claim to know the answer. It seemed like a responsible action on his part to take the video down as a result of public outcry.
Christian

Christian,
Its nice to talk with you. I wish it could be under happier circumstances. I want you to know I did read your post have had some time to reflect on your thoughts. You have made some valid points.

After thinking about it I'm sticking with "jackass". If he went away, thought about what the had done, then decided on his own will removed the video from the site then maybe he might not be a jackass. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think this is the case. I have read is response to other about this issue and he is a REALLY ARROGANT *******. The only reason the video was removed was the community outcry...(and how that might affect his wallet) and nothing to do with right or wrong.
Just my thoughts,
Christopher

 

[AmyJ]

But have read these posts regarding said video. I realize there are many things which create much bigger impacts, but I also believe that we need to view things holistically. Is it ok to toss your pop can out the window because you are on your way to a conference on saving the ozone layer? I believe in intergrity, which calls for us to be consistent in our actions, from the small to the great.

I will admit a huge thrill when I can physically encounter wildlife (marine or otherwise). But my phiolosphy that I am a guest... be still, quiet and if it is really not a problem you will be approached and welcomed. If not, then you are probably not welcome. But that's just me!

 

[headhunter]

Christian,
Its nice to talk with you. I wish it could be under happier circumstances. I want you to know I did read your post have had some time to reflect on your thoughts. You have made some valid points.

After thinking about it I'm sticking with "jackass". If he went away, thought about what the had done, then decided on his own will removed the video from the site then maybe he might not be a jackass. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think this is the case. I have read is response to other about this issue and he is a REALLY ARROGANT *******. The only reason the video was removed was the community outcry...(and how that might affect his wallet) and nothing to do with right or wrong.
Just my thoughts,
Christopher

Christopher, I have since read the post by Pasley "to complete the story." Which shows Rusty's alleged response.

I'll concede that it definitely shows him to be arrogant and deserving of being called a "jackass", if only for his broad categorization of the entire online community on a discussion board. I also tend to agree that his decision to take it down may have been motivated by his greed alone. Although, I must say that if that's true, I can't imagine that he understands how his response makes him look in the eyes of his "paying" public. It just seems like the choice of words in his response are poor for a business owner at all concerned with success. He could, of course, be going after a particular niche here. ;-)

I notice that you are in Huntington Beach. I'm in Altadena. Maybe I'll get to meet you in person at a local dive sometime. That would qualify for talking "under happier circumstances".

Thanks for the reply.

Christian

 

[SoCalAngel]

I tried and tried but couldn't open the video

However...I have run across 3 BIG angel sharks in the
wild on different occassions. The first was on a
night dive. 4 of us "pet" the sand off of it and were
lifting it off the bottom. It got a little annoyed,
and eventually just scooted off. None of us knew what
it was at the time.

After that night, I did some investigations and learned
that Angel Sharks are considered to be very aggresive
and angry sharks.

The second time, my buddy and I, again, messed with
a 6 ft. long wild animal. We pet the sand off,
lifted it up off the ground by it's wings. This one
got P.O.'d! It swam off and whipped itself around,
mouth wide open (really really really big!), and came
at me. I pulled my calf muscle as I tried to back off
away from the oncoming creature. Luckily, it was just
warning me. It came about 3 inches from me, then
sharp turn and was gone in less than 5 seconds.
Extremely scary!

The last one, I looked deep into it's eyes and it
spoke to me. It said, "leave me alone or I'll bite!"
I beleived it and took only pictures...

The thing is, with all the wonderful creatures we see
while we scuba, they can act or react completely
differently on different occassions. Just like grumpy
people do. You never know. Animals in aquarium touch
tanks tend to be ones that were born in captivity, so
they don't act/react the same way wild animals would.
Yet, look at those tiger guys. Their "tame" tiger
still went after him.

This is just my opinion, leave them be. But I don't
always follow my own advice, either...

=====
Live to Dive and Dive to Live!
o o o o o o
o o o o
o o
. .
U
Laurel

 

[ChrisM]

How do you think some of the great shots are taken.. without "restraining" some animals its impossible to get the shots

Unbelievable. I have been certified for 14 years. UW photography for 5 years. I have never, nor have I ever seen any of my friends in numerous local and overseas trips, "restrain" an animal to get a shot. If it is impossibleto get the shot without restraining, it doesn't get taken.

And if you think it means bad pics otherwise, you can check out my site.

I always laugh when people say "what about pollution, what about bigger issues?" As if we can only address those larger issues. Ever heard of think globally act locally? That argument is a non sequitur and a cheap and easy way out for people that are too afraid/jaded/important/arrogant to actually do something about behavior they disagree with.

To those that kill urchins for sport, fine. I don't agree, have never done it, and actually what bothers me more is swimming through afterwards, bottom looks like s*** and trash with urchin pieces. Whatever. if that floats your macho boat, fine. You shouldn't insult those that disagree with you though.

Laurel, if you want to see the vid I'll try to get a copy to Rich.

Chris

 

[PnL]

The title of this thread is a general one so I can understand all the comments regarding the video versus other "larger" issues that could be focused on. But since the conception of this thread stemmed from the video my initial post was regarding the video and the use of it to as an encouragement to others to do this. I don't think a dive shop should encourage this behavior and should NOT charter dive boats to go and handle wild marine animals - I'm not sure if Rusty was being serious when he said he has three additional boats going out to do the same thing, but I certainly hope that he isn't chartering boats with the intention of handling marine animals. It was clear that he was being sarcastic when he wrote "by the way I have a black sea bass bar-b-q this weekend with some horned shark sushi at the store...come on by" so I'm hoping he was not being serious when he said he had three boats going to do this. It would send the wrong message to new (and old) divers that general handling marine animal is okay, it could turn out to be unsafe for the diver and the animal.

The general issue of whether animals should be touched or not is very broad and depends on the definition of the diving done. But this action by a store is a very specific instance and not, IMO, a general issue.

 

[pasley]

While I found the interaction with the Angle Shark in the video to be inappropriate, what bothered me most was that a dive shop had posted it to generate more business for their dive trips. Kind of a, they should be setting a better example for the rest of us to follow type of thing.

I am pleased that he has removed the video, but saddened that it was ever there in the first place, and only removed after considerable outcry on several boards.

 

[tonyc]

Yeah... diver's can't do the amount of damage that is done by commercial fishing etc. I'm trying to remember a poem I once read about a boy throwing starfish back into the ocean at low tide... trying to remember this correctly.... ahh I'll do a cut paste...

THE STARFISH POEM

Once upon a time there was a wise man
who used to go to the ocean
to do his writing.
He had a habit of walking
on the beach
before he began his work.
One day he was walking along
the shore.
As he looked down the beach,
he saw a human
figure moving like a dancer.
He smiled to himself to think
of someone who would
dance to the day.
So he began to walk faster
to catch up.
As he got closer, he saw
that it was a young man
and the young man wasn't dancing,
but instead he was reaching
down to the shore,
picking up something
and very gently throwing it
into the ocean.
As he got closer he called out,
"Good morning! What are you doing?"
The young man paused,
looked up and replied,
"Throwing starfish in the ocean."
"I guess I should have asked,
why are you throwing starfish in the ocean?"
"The sun is up and the tide is going out.
And if I don't throw them in they'll die."
"But, young man, don't you realize that
there are miles and miles of beach
and starfish all along it.
You can't possibly make a difference!"
The young man listened politely.
Then bent down, picked up another starfish
and threw it into the sea,
past the breaking waves and said-
"It made a difference for that one."

 

[PhotoTJ]

Most folks that have handled sharks, eels, etc have had them try to bite - some have even succeeded -

Did you see Richard on Survivor? Got a pretty good bite on his arm.

 

[tonyc]

I dont know, I just think that humans have really dealt an incredible amount of damage on this planet. I'm not an expert environmentalist. I am not a member of PITA or green peace... definitely not vegan. I am into biology and the autopoiesis of life. It *seems* the underwater world is the only place left that hasn't been destroyed by human interference. And... what a wonderful and different world we get to escape to. I didn't grow up any where near the ocean, but as an adult I am drawn to it.

Nature is such a delicate balance. It seems anything we have done (even when it is with good intentions to improve something) leads to bad ramifications, ones we weren't even aware would arise. I personally have a laize-fare attitude toward nature, I prefer to observe life from a distance. For that reason, I would disagree with the poem above, but you get the point. Our dogs and cats are rescues. Our snakes are all captive bred. (yes we have lots of animals). I would never own a salt water aquarium.

Finally.... If any of us saw that guy topside harrassing a.... dog, cat, small child... the way he was that angel shark, I'm sure we would all want to inflict harm on him, call authorities etc. etc.

Sorry for the long posts, the video was disturbing, I'm slowly losing faith in the human race.

Tony.