Vertical vs horizontal ascent/descents

[rawls]

As much as I have tried and as much as I have shifted weights I cannot hold a horizontal position with a vest style bcd without finning slightly. With very minimal finning I can maintain horizontal without difficulty. I have also seen students and others who have perfect horizontal trim with vests without any weight manipulation at all. Then there are those like myself who just cannot maintain horizontal in a vest. That is just a reality that some of us have to deal with. It has to do with our body shapes and sizes. I have long lean legs and unfortunately I'm not as lean in my upper body I aslo have a larger lung capacity. With my bp/w I can maintain horizontal without a problem because I don't wear a weight belt, so all weight up top. But the vest I have tried everyway I can to redistribute weight higher up...even without a weight belt and it simply doesn't work....For me

BTW... I like horizontal ascents and descents, but you can ascend or descend anyway you want to...just as long as your ascent isn't too fast and you can clear easily on descent. In the large scheme of things it simply doesn't matter.

 

[jon m]

uh-oh , did this turn into a bp/w vs jacket debate?
to the OP - try horizontal descent/ascent , you may like it. if you can clear easier and maintain good control , then go vertical. there is no "rule" - whatever makes you more in control (safer) is what you should do. but TRY it !
btw- i own a bp/w(dove warm and cold witht the same rig) and recomend it!

 

[AirInHere]

Pontificate the benefits of proper trim all day, nobody is arguing this.

Swimming in a vertical position. Yeah, that can happen (impossible?).

Unless you or I am involved in the design of BCD neither of us can truly say what criteria are considered for designing them, but I can tell you what their selling points are. And surface performance is a major issue discussed by all the manufacturers at their clinics.

PADI also teaches people to descend feet first.
Pg 65 Open Water Diver Manual: To deflate the BCD, get into a vertical - or relativley heads up - position and depress the exhaust valve while holding the hose up.

Students are doing exactly what they are trained to do. Good for them. That means they are being responsible divers. You were trained different, then good for you doing it that way. It means you are being responsible. Argue with PADI standards if you disagree with them. Do not berate its students.

Who ever said anything about trim pockets making you trim vertically? (just silly)

Finally, double tanks locally, different wing for traveling, (and lighter plate as well). Perhaps even a transpac for overseas flights where baggage requirements are at a premium.

 

[RJP]

If you wear a jacket BCD, then expect to trim vertically. Its what they are designed to do. Fighting that is counterproductive.

BP/W are meant to float horizontally. If that is what you want, get a wing.

Neither one is more right than the other. Each is correct for its own design.

Many people love the upright positioning a jacket BCD offers. It also allows people to have a more natural field of vision for what they are used to experinecing.

BP/W will not only float you horizontally, they point your mask at the bottom of the ocean. You have to look straight up to see forward, and that is uncomfortable for some people.

Where on earth did you get such absurd information?

You're not passing this "knowledge" on to students I hope...

 

[captain]

BC, wing. no BC, if i want to go down I fin down, if i want to go I fin up. I am like an airplane and just as a pilot trims the plane level once he has reached the altitude he wants to fly at I. Once I reach the depth I want I trim horizontal. The BC, wing, etc is not a marine version of an elevator it is a trim device to maintain your depth once it is reached. Others may not agree but once you learn to dive this way you won't spend near as much time fliddling with the inflator/dump.

 

[Blackwood]

BC, wing. no BC, if i want to go down I fin down, if i want to go I fin up. I am like an airplane and just as a pilot trims the plane level once he has reached the altitude he wants to fly at I trim once I reach the depth I want I trim horizontal. The BC, wing, etc is not a marine version of an elevator it is a trim device to maintain your depth once it is reached. Others may not agree but once you learn to dive this way you won't spend near as much time fliddling with the inflator/dump.

I agree except I use my lungs to ascend/descend rather than my fins.

 

[Jasonmh]

newb diver here so i've never done a wall dive; i've been doing my descents w/my head up (i thought padi said that's the safest way to descend viz a viz equalization). should i change my descent do horizontal/head slightly down?

Decending horizontally (or atleast something closer to horizontal) has some benefits. You are presenting more surface area (increasing drag) which can help with making a more controlled descent, can give you a better view of where you are headed, and can make it alittle quicker to fin either direction if you have to fin up or down, or get to a buddy.
Ascending horizontally also makes it alittle easier to have a controlled ascent, with the greater surface area, and makes it easier to give a few downward kicks to maintain depth if you are having trouble.

 

[perdidochas]

I don't quite understand the advantage of horizontal ascent. I do see the advantage of horizontal descent and tend to do it. Question for you horizontal-only folks: How do you ascend/descend an anchorline horizontally?

 

[RJP]

Question for you horizontal-only folks: How do you ascend/descend an anchorline horizontally?

Better question is how/why do you "vertical-only" folks do it vertically? Do you grab the line with both hands and then wrap your knees and feet around it as well?

It's quite simple to hold the line with your hand only, while maintaining horizontal trim.

There's also solid information to suggest that horizontal trim is superior in terms of off gasssing. Think about it - horizontally your entire body is at the same 15' as your depth gauge for your safety stop. Vertically? Well I'm 6' tall, so at a 15' stop various parts of my 6' body can be +/- 40% of that depth.

 

[Pearldiver07]

Back to the original question of the post....

There are a couple of reasons that PADI suggests an upright descent, not all of which I think apply to any/all people. The best method is the one that works best for you...

1. Less disorientation. Let's face it, most people spend their life upright. While all of the new task-loading of diving is taking place, their position is to minimize confusion.

2. Maintaining direction/heading. Along with item one, I find that many newer divers tend to cork-screw when descending head first in lower visibility situations.

3. Ease of ear-clearing. I just don't agree with this one. I've found that people look down when descending. When you're upright this doesn't straighten out the neck area and caused many of my students to grit down. I have to remind students to avoid this if/when they're descending feet first.

Well, back to the BP/W vs jacket-style vs trim arguement...