Uwatec Aladin Air X Nitrox court cases

[DandyDon]

The article is 4 pages, too long to quote. See Corporate coverup exposed divers to grave risk / Company kept computer defect secret for 7 years, according to Oakland lawsuit - SFGate

Money talks...!!

Here is the recall notice: CPSC - CPSC, UWATEC AG Announce Recall of 1995 Aladin Air X NitrOx Dive Computers

 

[Scared Silly]

DD that article is 10 years old (from 2003). Fairly well known and why many people, my self included no longer buy UWATEC products or products from their parent company Johnson Outdoors.

 

[DandyDon]

DD that article is 10 years old (from 2003). Fairly well known and why many people, my self included no longer buy UWATEC products or products from their parent company Johnson Outdoors.

I didn't notice how old the story was. Sorry, it was new to me - and very irritating.

 

[Subcooled]

The case may be old, but I wasn't diving then, and neither were many others, and the case was not known to me. So thanks for bringing it up.

Discussing that specific case is no longer relevant.

I have one general question, though. And I think it is an important one.

Would it be typical of an U.S. company to cover defects for financial benefit and/or legal immunity?

I mean... all the court cases... Would anyone in their right minds publicly announce that their product may have a lethal flaw?

Should I buy european computers instead? In many other countries sueing anyone anytime for anything seems less common... Maybe corporations in other countries might be more willing to admit their mistakes and do recalls?

 

[kelemvor]

Interesting. I guess it could explain some of the animosity people seem to have to the Galileo computers. Except that I've not seen anyone cite this issue. Thanks for posting, like Subcooled I wasn't diving when this happened and I had not heard of it.

I have one general question, though. And I think it is an important one.

Would it be typical of an U.S. company to cover defects for financial benefit and/or legal immunity?

I mean... all the court cases... Would anyone in their right minds publicly announce that their product may have a lethal flaw?

Should I buy european computers instead? In many other countries the legal system seems... a little bit more common sense... And maybe corporations in other countries might be more willing to admit mistakes and do recalls?

Your honest opinion?

My opinion is that it probably is typical. Companies like Microsoft have shown that there is a great deal of money to be made doing whatever you want then paying some small amount of that back in restitution. Since court imposed penalties for stuff like this are not serious enough, it's good business to cover things like this up. I'm not sure if that would be different in EU or not. Bottom line: Unless the court charged uwatec an amount equal to every dime they made selling these computers after they knew there was a defect, then it makes good business sense for uwatec to cover up the defect.

In the business world, lawsuits and fines are just another business expense to be factored in. It MUST be so in a publicly traded company where those in charge have a responsibility to earn money for the shareholders. In a privately held company, the owners could choose to take moral high ground over revenue. That's what used to make the Quakers so good before they sold everything off.

 

[Subcooled]

I believe (naively) that most employees care about the customers wellbeing.

It is also human to make mistakes. If I were an employer, I would not employ anyone that claims not to make any mistakes. Those liars...

I guess that many would want to announce the mistakes done, and to issue fixes/replacements, but then the legal department interferes. I would not blame the individual. I would blame the environment. But this is becoming a political issue then...

If my LIFE depends on an algorithm, then I DO prefer about any company that admits its mistakes. I believe that people (and companies) can be divided into two categories: Those that admit their mistakes, and those that lie.

 

[Agility]

That is the huge advantage of open source software. bugs and flaws are detected early
heinrichsweikamp
just waiting for a VPM Firmware for the OSTC

 

[DandyDon]

The good news is that the lying ******* who caused the harm is out of the company. The current owners seem innocent.

 

[Scared Silly]

The good news is that the lying ******* who caused the harm is out of the company. The current owners seem innocent.

DD, reread the articles. The denial started with the original owners of UWATEC. They were then bought by Johnson Outdoors which inherited the mess in 1997. JO also continued to deny the issue through several lawsuits. The recall was not until 2003 - six years after JO bought the UWATEC. So JO is not so innocent (especially given their threat of SLAPP suit) and are the current owners of both UWATEC and ScubaPro.

Had the defect been reported by UWATEC in all likelihood JO would not have bought the company.

Much of the issue was quiet until the early 2000s. But once folks learned about it via the old rec.scuba boards it had quite the falling out. I like many dumped UWATEC products and bought new computers. I was in the market for a new computer anyways so it was good timing.

That is the huge advantage of open source software. bugs and flaws are detected early heinrichsweikamp just waiting for a VPM Firmware for the OSTC

That is very very naive thinking. There are bugs in any system. In fact, the bug in the UWATEC computer was found and fixed - the issue was admitting it and going back and fixing the older ones. There pros and cons to both open and closed source.

The case may be old, but I wasn't diving then, and neither were many others, and the case was not known to me. So thanks for bringing it up.

Discussing that specific case is no longer relevant.

Actually it is still relevant because the parent company Johnson Outdoors that owns UWATEC (and ScubaPro) are still the owners. So it shows a corporate mind set.

I have one general question, though. And I think it is an important one.

Would it be typical of an U.S. company to cover defects for financial benefit and/or legal immunity?

I mean... all the court cases... Would anyone in their right minds publicly announce that their product may have a lethal flaw?

The hope is that a recall will prevent, injuries and death thus in turn prevent lawsuits. It is called risk management. Companies do such analysis all the time. A classic case is Toyota and the stuck accelerator. Car mfg probably have more calls than any other industry.

Should I buy european computers instead? In many other countries sueing anyone anytime for anything seems less common... Maybe corporations in other countries might be more willing to admit their mistakes and do recalls?

Good question. I have no idea regarding Europe.

 

[TheTrickster]

I would agree about the OSTC, its open source - which means in theory anybody can code software for it, which could lead to unproven software being used?

I hadn't heard of the Uwatec case before a few days again - very interesting turn of events!!