Utterly Brilliant Diver!

[deepstops]

What if he had Lloyd Bailey rental stickers??

Who would he be representing then??

The strokes??

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Mike, can I offer the plaintive observation that anybody on earth can rent tanks from EE?

Diving solo is anathema to the organization you're accusing this diver of belonging to.

Jerks are jerks, and they come in all flavors.

Yes, Jerks are Jerks. The way he was dressed and rigged with the perticular brand name of equipment that he was using, it would send the message that he was part of that organization. Just to be clear, I have no personal issue with that organization, and have dove with some very good divers that follow that way of life. But, this guy was setting an attrocious example for that organization.

Again, my post was directed solely at that perticular diver, in hopes that he reads the boards and will get the message.

Safe diving lynne,

 

[RAD Diver]

Even if he reads it, people like that seldom get the message.

 

[PerroneFord]

Yes, Jerks are Jerks. The way he was dressed and rigged with the perticular brand name of equipment that he was using, it would send the message that he was part of that organization. Just to be clear, I have no personal issue with that organization, and have dove with some very good divers that follow that way of life. But, this guy was setting an attrocious example for that organization.

Again,

Solo diving is the antithesis of this organization, which leads me to believe said diver was not a member of the organization in question despite how they might have been dressed.

 

[ucfdiver]

Yes, Jerks are Jerks. The way he was dressed and rigged with the perticular brand name of equipment that he was using, it would send the message that he was part of that organization. Just to be clear, I have no personal issue with that organization, and have dove with some very good divers that follow that way of life. But, this guy was setting an attrocious example for that organization.

Again, my post was directed solely at that perticular diver, in hopes that he reads the boards and will get the message.

Safe diving lynne,

Mike, I really hope I misunderstood your post here, because from what's described, it doesn't sound as if this diver is representing ANY organization. While I've read enough of your posts to realize that you're not a GUE basher, the original post in this topic did make me wonder.

Solo diving is a major no-no within GUE, the logistics of the entire dir system (stages on left, light in left hand, breathing the long hose, gas switching, their way of marking jumps, etc) are all based off of a teamwork concept, and these things become useless if you're solo diving. The fact that he was diving solo, means that if he was in fact a GUE/DIR diver, he had ignored even the most basic concepts of his training, and I don't believe that anyone would honestly consider him "representing" GUE.

Singling out an agency or dive shop is simply counter productive to our community as a whole, as it breeds bad relations and unnecessary tension. The entire staff at EE are friendly and courteous, as are the majority of GUE, NACD, NSS-CDS, IANTD, etc divers that I have met. I don't think the majority from any organization would support the behavior you've described. With the GUE conference, REACT, and the NACD Halloween social this weekend all in cave country, it's important to remember that rental gear wasn't easy to come by. The fact that this diver had rental tanks from EE doesn't mean he's even cave trained, let alone specify an organization. Most NFL trained cave divers are dropping stages 400-500+ ft into the cave, not at the lips, and anyone who dives in FL knows to get up high in the gallery.

I dove with 2 GUE Cave 2 divers and WKPP team members back to the siphon tunnel in Ginnie Friday night and they were both great dive buddies. One of them has given me great advice from the very beginning of my cave training, and spent several hours answering questions that I had for no gain of his own, other than doing a good deed. Then I dove Telford with another GUE Cave 2 trained diver Saturday, yet again a great dive buddy.

While the various organizations have their own ways of doing things, it's important to realize that we're all here to have fun cave diving and return home safely. The mid 1990's generation of divers created some tension that hopefully people like myself, a member of the next generation of divers can over come.

In the future, I think that describing the behavior, and not guessing at the agency that the said diver was trained with, would be much more beneficial.

I would like to thank you however, for calling this unacceptable behavior out, as it lets all divers know that we do not tolerate it. The "what happens in the cave stays in the cave" argument has obviously failed miserably.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Mike, I really hope I misunderstood your post here, because from what's described, it doesn't sound as if this diver is representing ANY organization. While I've read enough of your posts to realize that you're not a GUE basher, the original post in this topic did make me wonder.

Solo diving is a major no-no within GUE, the logistics of the entire dir system (stages on left, light in left hand, breathing the long hose, gas switching, their way of marking jumps, etc) are all based off of a teamwork concept, and these things become useless if you're solo diving. The fact that he was diving solo, means that if he was in fact a GUE/DIR diver, he had ignored even the most basic concepts of his training, and I don't believe that anyone would honestly consider him "representing" GUE.

Singling out an agency or dive shop is simply counter productive to our community as a whole, as it breeds bad relations and unnecessary tension. The entire staff at EE are friendly and courteous, as are the majority of GUE, NACD, NSS-CDS, IANTD, etc divers that I have met. I don't think the majority from any organization would support the behavior you've described. With the GUE conference, REACT, and the NACD Halloween social this weekend all in cave country, it's important to remember that rental gear wasn't easy to come by. The fact that this diver had rental tanks from EE doesn't mean he's even cave trained, let alone specify an organization. Most NFL trained cave divers are dropping stages 400-500+ ft into the cave, not at the lips, and anyone who dives in FL knows to get up high in the gallery.

I dove with 2 GUE Cave 2 divers and WKPP team members back to the siphon tunnel in Ginnie Friday night and they were both great dive buddies. One of them has given me great advice from the very beginning of my cave training, and spent several hours answering questions that I had for no gain of his own, other than doing a good deed. Then I dove Telford with another GUE Cave 2 trained diver Saturday, yet again a great dive buddy.

While the various organizations have their own ways of doing things, it's important to realize that we're all here to have fun cave diving and return home safely. The mid 1990's generation of divers created some tension that hopefully people like myself, a member of the next generation of divers can over come.

In the future, I think that describing the behavior, and not guessing at the agency that the said diver was trained with, would be much more beneficial.

I would like to thank you however, for calling this unacceptable behavior out, as it lets all divers know that we do not tolerate it. The "what happens in the cave stays in the cave" argument has obviously failed miserably.

You are correct in your post. I am not GUE bashing. I only wanted to point out that to an average person they might mistake him for a member of that organization. If only by the way he was rigged (GUE / DIR), and the brand of equipment (H) he was wearing.

He was most likely a "poser" for lack of a better word, and believed that the "look" alone makes him part of the club.

I also agree with your opinion of EE. I have always been very well treated with utmost respect when dealing with those guys, and was never once belittled or insulted. (even though I sport a bright yellow drysuit!) :cool2:

I am not familiar with the certification check procedures for equipment rental at EE. Maybe this diver could talk the talk.

I really don't believe that this diver was local, and most likely came down for the GUE conference.

My hope is still that he reads this thread and gets the proper training, but more importantly the right attitude about cave diving and people.

Safe Diving

 

[pmlee]

Singling out an agency or dive shop is simply counter productive to our community as a whole, as it breeds bad relations and unnecessary tension. The entire staff at EE are friendly and courteous, as are the majority of GUE, NACD, NSS-CDS, IANTD, etc divers that I have met. I don't think the majority from any organization would support the behavior you've described. With the GUE conference, REACT, and the NACD Halloween social this weekend all in cave country, it's important to remember that rental gear wasn't easy to come by. The fact that this diver had rental tanks from EE doesn't mean he's even cave trained, let alone specify an organization. Most NFL trained cave divers are dropping stages 400-500+ ft into the cave, not at the lips, and anyone who dives in FL knows to get up high in the gallery.

I did not take the original post as a "singling" out, maybe I'm wrong here....I took it as a means of identification/recognition of that individual.