UTD Essentials of Recreational Diving - What graduates say

[randytay]

I voted yes, because I am currently enrolled in EoR. I've done the classroom / closed water components and need to do the OW components. I have found the buoyancy and propulsion bits to be fantastic and recommend the course to other divers with PADI backgrounds. I find the fact that dive computers are not allowed other than in gauge mode crazy, and I won't dive that way other than for my certification dives. I think the online training has a lot of room for improvement.

Thank you for the feedback about the materials. May I ask who are you doing EoR with?

 

[randytay]

My UTD group did all our diving at altitude, and UTD taught that we were to plan our deco using Ratio Deco exactly as we would at at sea level, because altitude has no effect on decompression. (I believe they still teach that.) Because we had a pretty high incidence of DCS in our small group, I was pretty concerned. As far as I knew, we were the only diving organization in the world that thought altitude was not a factor for decompression.

Thank you for your candid response. Just a quick question: when you said using Ratio Deco, does that include using the standard gases that goes with Ratio Deco or was other gases used? I did a couple of tech dives at altitude with my group and we were high from the whiskey after the dives.

 

[vam]

Thank you for the feedback about the materials. May I ask who are you doing EoR with?

Todd at Great Lakes Divers in Aurora, Ontario. Unfortunately his shop is closing this week but he says he will continue to offer training.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

True. For someone coming from PADI recreational background, Essentials will change the way you "think" diving.

 

[The Chairman]

For someone coming from PADI recreational background, Essentials will change the way you "think" diving.

While that used to be the case, I don't think it's as true anymore. Other than the focus on the team and gear rigidity, there are a lot of PADI divers graduating with exceptional skills, including trim and buoyancy. There are a lot of NASE and SDI students with the same as well as the other agencies. If there is one thing good to come out of the DIR movement, it has been an increased awareness of trim and buoyancy. It has not been without rancor and it's good to see both GUE and UTD distance themselves from that approach.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

While that used to be the case, I don't think it's as true anymore. Other than the focus on the team and gear rigidity, there are a lot of PADI divers graduating with exceptional skills, including trim and buoyancy. There are a lot of NASE and SDI students with the same as well as the other agencies. If there is one thing good to come out of the DIR movement, it has been an increased awareness of trim and buoyancy. It has not been without rancor and it's good to see both GUE and UTD distance themselves from that approach.

That is very true but the PADI brand name does not stand for training recreational students with skills of the technical diver. Google "PADI skills" and you will see pictures of people from different parts of the world sitting on their knees at the bottom of a pool blowing bubbles. These are the pictures PADI resorts put out there to market themselves. I am glad that PADI, SSI and other agencies have instructors who are bringing in the same skill level as UTD Essentials but the PADI marketing campaign and the brand image that the agency sends out does not represent those instructors yet (it seems.)

 

[boulderjohn]

Was that you own conclusion or was that stated explicitly? If so, I would like to see a copy of that email.

That was about 7 years and two computers ago. I cannot find the email. UTD should have a copy. It was quoted in my response when I told them I was leaving.

 

[stuartv]

And that is what I believe people responding to the survey should focus on. The survey asks whether you would be interested in the Essentials of Recreational Diving course. Ratio Deco and other quirks of tech diving aren't relevant at the level this survey appears to be aimed at.

Even at the "new OW" level, my opinion is that people considering further training absolutely SHOULD give some thought to more of their diving future than JUST the next class they're going to take. Just because Essentials and Fundies offer the same thing (in terms of short-term value) to a new OW diver, doesn't mean that such a person should completely ignore "the man behind the curtain" when they are deciding what to take.

It doesn't really matter which agency a person goes with for OW training. Any further training will accept any agency's OW cert. But, that is not true when you are talking about Essentials vs Fundies and what you can do with those certs later.

If GUE would accept a UTD Essentials cert in lieu of a Fundies Tech pass, as a prerequisite for taking GUE Tech 1 or Cave 1, then I would feel differently. An OW cert doesn't lock you into an agency. Essentials vs Fundies does lock you into (or out of, depending on how you look at it) an agency.

For many divers, it won't matter, because they are never going to go tech. But, nobody except the diver him or herself can say whether they will eventually go tech or not. So, anyone who is considering one of these courses should (in my opinion) be given the info about the agency and the "quirks" like how they approach deco and tech diving, in addition to the info about the course itself. If a choice locks you into a certain path, you should be told that and what it means.

 

[wedivebc]

Yes, dangerous with ZERO incidents as compared to other safer alternatives.

How many UTD rebreather divers are there? Active? I know a few who have returned to OC.

 

[The Chairman]

but the PADI brand name does not stand for training recreational students with skills of the technical diver.

As I have posted many, many times: The instructor is far more important than the agency. I would have no issues having my daughter learn Scuba from @boulderjohn, even though I would never be a PADI instructor. As an instructor, I choose the agencies that most closely align with my philosophies. For OW, I will only teach NASE and I'm looking at RAID. I find both PADI and UTD to be equally far too rigid for me. I teach a few classes through SDI/TDI, but as long as they require OW CESAs, I won't be teaching OW through them.

Yes, dangerous with ZERO incidents as compared to other safer alternatives.

How many UTD rebreather divers are there? Active? I know a few who have returned to OC.

I see where're you're going with this, and I actually believe the premise you cited from Randy to be false. The people at Duke think that Ratio Deco is very flawed and they suggest that the number of DCI incidents from Ratio Deco divers is far, far higher than all the other protocols combined. That's another reason why I could never, ever teach for UTD.