MikeWebb
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Actually, compensate for depth due to Boyles Law. Failure to do so will lead to vasectomy.
UTD and Neoprene drysuits
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Actually, compensate for depth due to Boyles Law. Failure to do so will lead to vasectomy.
Incorrect. If you're going to go with neoprene then crushed neoprene would be your best option of the 4 (untreated, shaved, compressed, crushed). However, in order to make it unable to compress it would need to be hard like tire rubber, which it's not. There is still a trade off between being able to move in it and the compression characteristics.
R..
---------- Post added November 14th, 2014 at 02:27 PM ----------
I have the distinct impression than it's more than just Boyle's law, although you've clearly put your finger on the big obvious dot on the radar.
The reason I think this is the feeling that I'm "heavier" at depth, even with a trilam suit on, than I am shallow. I won't exclude the possibility that it's in my head but there appears to be more to it than that.
a neoprene cap,
some bungee
neoprene boots on the dry suit
various bits and bobs that can compress to one degree or another
I have the impression that all of these seemingly insignificant drops in the bucket add up together to a kg or maybe more in buoyancy if you go deep enough.
Of course, that doesn't compare to what it is when you use a neoprene drysuit.
R..
Rich, I remember how things were done. But what the point is, if you are deep in a thick wetsuit and you are weighted properly and you can not add air to your wing to compensate for the loss of bouyancy and you are unable to swim up due to the fact you have 20+ lbs of lead, if you were to drop your belt you will orca. And that is a hazard that can easily be avoided. How do we avoid this? Don't dive deep in a thick wetsuit or use a drysuit. The debate on compressed/crushed neoprene is still going on.
OP
CAPTAIN SINBAD
Contributor
For extremely cold / ice dives, the lead that I use for my neoprene suit is less than the lead I would use for my shell suit + layers of undergarments. This is not even a crushed neoprene suit. If it is not extremely cold/ice-snow conditions then the lead I wear in my neoprene is equal to the lead in my shell suit.
It seems that the argument against neoprene suits is based on some theoretical claim that a neoprene diver is loaded with more lead. This has never been true in my case.
Sinbad, just do a quick balanced rig calc on paper and then do a wing failure (on paper) at the end of the dive just before the ascent. If the numbers work, then they work. If not it'll show that that wasn't the optimal suit for that dive. Just tools in a tool box.
SanDiegoSidemount
Contributor
Thick wetsuits (7mm+) are definitely no-go past around 60 feet for balanced rig safety.
A thinner neoprene drysuit (2mm-3mm) would probably not leave you in a fatal bind, assuming both your wing and your suit have enough buoyancy potential to get you off the bottom at your max depth if one of them should fail.
The buoyancy swing in an uncompressed neoprene drysuit >3mm would likely be too much to allow for a workable balanced rig.
A thinner neoprene drysuit (2mm-3mm) would probably not leave you in a fatal bind, assuming both your wing and your suit have enough buoyancy potential to get you off the bottom at your max depth if one of them should fail.
The buoyancy swing in an uncompressed neoprene drysuit >3mm would likely be too much to allow for a workable balanced rig.
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Rich Keller
Contributor
I do not have to swim up 20+ lbs of lead as much of that is still needed even for a compressed suit and the higher I go the less weight I will have to swim up. I also retain the option to drop the weights should the incident become a life or death situation. If you run into something that cuts both your wing and your shell suit dropping your weights will only get you back to neutral or still somewhat negative so you can only go up as fast as you can swim. In most cases that should be fine but in a life or death situation I have another option that will get me to the surface faster without depending on any physical exertion on my part, you do not have that option.
SanDiegoSidemount
Contributor
One of the assumptions we make in Balanced Rig is that you could be in an overhead environment and/or have a deco obligation. So uncontrolled positive buoyancy and/or blowing your deco stops could be just as lethal as not being able to get off the bottom after a failure. That's one reason the word "balanced" is in the term.
You shouldn't have to worry about OOG in Balanced Rig. Your gas planning (Rock Bottom) should ensure that you never need to rush to the surface.
At UTD we don't do ESA/CESA. If you ditch weight, you still need to leave enough to make proper stops all the way up to 10 feet. This means that your ditchable weight should never exceed the weight of the gas in your (full) tanks. If your tanks are empty, you should be perfectly neutral at 10 feet; nothing should be ditchable at that point.
Compressible exposure suits, whether wet or dry, make all this balancing (deep/shallow, tanks full/empty) more problematic.
However, as @decompression says, if you can make the math work out, dive whatever you like.
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