USUN XB30 Drive with "Shop" air?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

InWay2Deep

Contributor
Messages
289
Reaction score
179
Location
USA
I've got a USUN XB30 for booting 2L and AL40's. I can't seem to find the CFM requirements for drive gas. Just the 8.3Bar max input pressure. This is easily done using a regular "shop" air compressor. Anyone have a setup like this? What compressor do you use and what kind of pre-filter do you have in place? Would a little pancake compressor keep up? Trying to minimize trips to the dive shop for drive gas if possible as I have an H bottle of O2 I'm filling from.

Thanks
 
I did try using mine with a small compressor, and a separator, but at the low flow rate, the separator didn't work very well, and when I stripped it, it with filthy. I was concerned at the minimal separation between the drive and O2 side
 
I have a "small" 2 stage 20gal compressor which does 5.5cfm at 90psi. It does rebreather bottles fine, but I have to wait for it to refill on anything larger when pressure gets above 2500. Due to the large volumes of air required it would be a good idea to have a large cooling/filter system.
20220806_140845.jpg


Img_1517.jpg
 
A little pancake compressor won't do it. I go with a generic calculation that it takes a scuba cylinder of drive air to fill a rebreather bottle. There can be a lot of variation to that, what is the start pressures of both bottles, how large of a scuba cylinder, etc. With that you have an approximate cubic feet of drive gas needed.

But there is more. Most home shop style compressors are not rated at 100% duty cycle. They will burn out if run full time. It actually takes a fairly large and robust compressor to do it right. I run a 5HP Ingersol Rand 2-stage on a 60 gallon tank. It will keep up and cycle at about a 50% duty cycle running my Haskel.

Large tanks are nice for a couple of reasons. Probably the best overlooked one is the large surface area. That works good for cooling the air.

2-stage has a benefit that is way overlooked at drying the air. Being compressed to a higher pressure forces more of the water to condense out. Then when you regulate that air pressure down to a lower pressure it is dryer. Much like how air from a scuba tank is nearly as dry as possible, the water was squeezed out from high pressure so you don't get any at low pressures. Same thing happens to a lesser degree running a compressor at a higher pressure than your operating pressure.

Another factor of running higher pressure is the compressor has a hysteresis on the pressure switch. The compressor may cycle on at 150 PSI and off at 175 PSI for example. It will be listed as a 175 PSI compressor. But will deliver only 150 PSI (or less) of consistent air delivery.
 
Context - I run an u-sun XB30 booster.
Disclaimer… I claim no expertise, only a strong desire to dive as much as I can stretch my budget - and if I don't take the time to put things in writing, I find it much harder to recall and structure my thoughts.

I have purchased the following compressor to drive it when at home
(more filtration work underway, its really needed when boosting into S80s and its running pretty much continuously)

Here are some notes on how to drive a booster I put together when sharing thoughts with a mate. I've also written up some on single/double/two-stage etc., collated stuff, its not my work! but I'll post that some time too.

Again, these were some of my thoughts at the time, happy to take constructive feedback.

So, notes...

To get a cycle out of a booster, you need to fill its chamber to a given pressure. That means a given volume of gas at at suffient pressure to get that chamber to the tripping pressure. Its a max of 8 bar in the small u-sun range. The required trigger pressure will vary throughout the fill as the relative pressures in source and target cylinder change.

So, it’s not just pressure you need, but volume, or flow rate, to fill that chamber in a given time and cause a cycle.

In the context of "shop" compressors, really stress you need a compressor that *operates* in the 8-10bar range. So keep an eye out for working pressure as opposed to max pressure.

An 8bar max compressor will cut off at 8bar, but only kick back in at 6 bar. If you need 7 bar for that next booster cycle, you're stalled. You could add a secondary bleed, but that's another story.

More detail.... the tank acts as a buffer, and only starts refilling at 6bar (stopping at 8). So you can't drive when you need more than 6bar because the compressor won't start if the tank is above 6bar. The u-suns will need more than 6bar to fill a small butt cylinder with o2.

Again, you need a 10bar max that starts to refill at 8bar.

This also plays into "Duty Cycle", that is the time a compressor can run before it needs a rest.

Sure, a “buffer” cylinder helps and it’s the same as a bank, but it’s also really helpful to generate more gas at a given pressure to keep things moving so you don't fall asleep in the outhouse. Volume of air delivered is often referred to as FAD, or "Free Air Delivery".

My use-case sees me filling “2l ally butt cylinders” to 200bar. I don’t need a big compressor to drive my booster, and filling slowly is also a bonus. Far less than one cycle a second, possibly as much as 2-3 seconds per cycle. I’ve bought a small garage type compressor for AUD400, the type often used to drive a single air tool (nail gun etc). This is a 2.5hp, 50l.

A few other peeps I know use belt-drive air compressors. These peeps do large boosting jobs, and like to “scavenge” as much of the source gas as possible (helium is expensive huh).

These larger "shop" compressors are still cheap-ish, but start at the $7-800 range, and can put out 8-10bar at a much higher *flow* rate (total air volume at given pressure) than the smaller one I’m buying, so you'd not have to wait around forever boosting into an S80 from a half empty O2 bottle.

You can also get these larger flow rate “shop” & belt drive compressors in electric. Not sure myself of all the trade offs of these higher powered ones, probably same as any electric v Petrol engine argument though.

Either way, these will keep up with larger S80 boosting needs so you don’t have to empty banks nor wait on a smaller (cheap!) one like I'm buying.

There are a few oil traps and “dryer” options on Amazon etc. to help clean up the output from these cheaper compressors which will protect your booster’s internal bits on the drive gas side.

All up, much cheaper than running a scuba-grade air compressor to drive a booster.
 
Hey, @greeniguana

Have you done a write up on this set up? Super interested

 
Amazon etc

Brilliant!

A good AliExpress look too

An example, not a recommendation


Also not to put a pin in your baloon, Supercheap has those compressors on sale once or twice a year for $400 ish

Become a club member

012.JPG


So keep your eye out, you can buy a few more and manifold them together for a little bit of some extra oomph

Great job!
 
Hey, @greeniguana

Have you done a write up on this set up? Super interested


That is the writeup.
 

Back
Top Bottom