US/NATO navy exercises... and more dead whales

[Tobagoman]

When I was in the service back in the 80's, we used to throw all the ships plastic bags of garbage overboard into the propwash (supposidly to be chewed up by the props) every evening when we were outside of any territorial waters. We'd leave a line of floating garbage to the horizon. We were definetly not environmentally concious back then, hopefully things have change since. Oh, and this was the U.S. Coast Guard that was suppose to safeguard the oceans.

 

[Rick Murchison]

When I was in the service back in the 80's, we used to throw all the ships plastic bags of garbage overboard into the propwash (supposidly to be chewed up by the props) every evening when we were outside of any territorial waters. We'd leave a line of floating garbage to the horizon. We were definetly not environmentally concious back then, hopefully things have change since. Oh, and this was the U.S. Coast Guard that was suppose to safeguard the oceans.

Your post is irrelevant to the discussion.
However...
The rule was 50 miles offshore and all garbage must sink. If yours didn't sink you were violating your own rules.
Rick

 

[DORSETBOY]

That is correct. But it doesn't stop the "experts" declaring that the "military exercise" is worthy of "strong suspicion."
Pure junk.
Rick

It is easy to blame the millitary / big business / Governments
for every conceived ill. I think it was in a UK Daily that I read a good point someone made which said that the general public will as a general rule automatically believe every self confessed 'expert' without credentials who spouts supposedly pro-environmental argument. Conversely, people will automatically assume that Governments and big business always lie and are always trying to cover something up.

 

[MarkH]

Speaks for itself.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/07/26/whales.sonar.reut/index.html

The same thing happened up here in the Strait of Juan De Fuca after scientists dissected porpoises that died after naval activity in the area. They too blamed the new sonar. And yes, navies still use active sonar. I'm in a navy and we excercise with navies from all over the world including the U.S. and unless it's "fake" active sonar that naval ships use for nostalgic reasons, I hear it all the time.

 

[DORSETBOY]

doesnt using active sonar give your positions away? which navy do you serve in?

 

[dlwalke]

doesnt using active sonar give your positions away? which navy do you serve in?

It definitely gives your bearing away, but probably not your range. The advantage is that you can get an immediate fix on your target. With passive sonar, you would generally have to do some rather time-consuming triangulation. I suspect also that for targets with low level acoustic signatures or for vessels that are not running, active sonar may have greater effective range. In some cases (i.e., when your position is already known), the advantages of active outweigh the disadvantages. It is still used.

 

[MarkH]

doesnt using active sonar give your positions away? which navy do you serve in?

I'm in the Canadian Navy, but I hear active sonar coming from U.S., Japanese, Australian, etc.... navy ships. I'm not a sonar guy so I couldn't tell you the pros and cons of using it. All I know is that it ranges from annoying to painful on the ears when I'm down below the waterline in the engineering spaces.

 

[Rickg]

drbill,

This cannot be attributed to the US Navy's LFA. The USN's LFA has not operated/transmitted in the Altantic in years. In fact it was only last year the USN was granted permission by a federal judge to operate LFA in certain restricted areas in the western Pacific Ocean and has also been restricted to operating a reduced levels as part of the judges decision.

Rickg

 

[dlndavid]

Your post is irrelevant to the discussion.
However...
The rule was 50 miles offshore and all garbage must sink. If yours didn't sink you were violating your own rules.
Rick

I can"t stand junk science and those that fall for it. You seem to know what you are talking about and I do appreciate you defending man's exsistence in this world, to protect a way of life many take for granted. Thanks

David

 

[pipedope]

It is easy to blame the millitary / big business / Governments
for every conceived ill. I think it was in a UK Daily that I read a good point someone made which said that the general public will as a general rule automatically believe every self confessed 'expert' without credentials who spouts supposedly pro-environmental argument. Conversely, people will automatically assume that Governments and big business always lie and are always trying to cover something up.

Unfortunately most Governments and Corporations have given us good reason to distrust them.

You want good science and experimental practice?
For any new activity or material you ASSUME it is dangerous and PROVE that it is safe.

When you assume things are safe until proven dangerous, someone (usually LOTS of someones) has to die before things change.