US Expat fatality in Vanuatu

[Ayisha]

From the above article: "He made a "personal recommendation" to all divers, saying they should be confident and competent in their equipment, which should be of the correct size, and have good quality air in their cylinders".

In addition to the info regarding oily tasting gas, apparent lack of compressor (and other gear) maintenance, engine oil usage, filters seemingly not being changed, etc., was a carboxyhemoglobin test conducted post-mortem, and is the result known? (Notwithstanding all the other issues that may be at play in this incident).

 

[clownfishsydney]

Ayisha, as per the Watson matter, I encourage you to please read my article the answers are probably there. However, as you do not want to read anything I write or the evidence I supply, I will answer here. It would seem no test was done for carbon monoxide. However, the dive instructor present (who I spoke to within a week or so of the accident) stated he specifically looked at Laila's finger nails to see if there was evidence of carbon monoxide. He saw none.

 

[Ayisha]

Michael, as usual, I did read your blog and I was asking for clarification on whether a carboxyhemoglobin test was actually done and whether the results are known based on your statement in your blog:

"Dr Edmonds also indicated to me that the blood samples should show if carbon monoxide levels were too high. I had hoped that the full post mortem results would reveal something about this".

You also say: "Testing the air would also show if there was a correct oxygen level and if there was too much oil, carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide. I have spoken to Dr Carl Edmonds (lead author of Diving and Subaquatic Medicine) and he indicated to me that the normal physical observation of carbon monoxide poisoning, cherry red colour under the victim’s fingernails, is not very obvious in diving related carbon monoxide poisoning. Therefore, it is likely that if this is the problem, it may not have been noticed by David Ellaby (the paramedic), the female doctor doing the CPR or John. John confirmed to me that there was no colouring at all and he said that he specifically looked for this. Therefore it is unlikely that carbon monoxide poisoning is relevant to what happened".

Sorry, I don't think whether someone notices discolouration is a reliable indicator of CO poisoning or not. Testing the tank for CO should be done. A carboxyhemoglobin blood test is not available in all countries, unfortunately, but should be done when available or where indicated.

You later go on to say: "There are a couple of things that I thought would have been covered by the Police report and the autopsy but which do not appear to have been looked at. One is the presence of carbon monoxide in Laila's blood. As I indicated above, Dr Edmonds says that this shows up if a test is done. As there is no mention of it, all I can guess is that it was not looked at".

So I take it you're still guessing.

 

[DandyDon]

Well said, Ayisha.

I have spoken to Dr Carl Edmonds (lead author of Diving and Subaquatic Medicine) and he indicated to me that the normal physical observation of carbon monoxide poisoning, cherry red colour under the victim’s fingernails, is not very obvious in diving related carbon monoxide poisoning.

Yeah, a cherry read color under the nails would be even more reason to test, but not substantial proof - and a lack of excessive redness would be meaningless.

(1) The only way to know if the tank is safe to dive is to test it, regardless of what other tanks on the same boat tested. Too bad that the Analox model is no longer produced, but I have on of the new Cootwo analyzers coming to try out, and of course I carry my Sensorcon virtually everywhere. (I like to see what the air in my car, in cafes, etc. test as I go thru life, since no one else is checking usually.)

(2) The only way to rule out CO poisoning in a victim is to test. This may well not be possible in many locations, tho.

 

[Coztick]

What a horrible chain of events. As a newer diver with similar training, I feel she was doomed by greed and poor training. What brought it together was the pathetic guide that let it happen. She was obviously not ready to do the penatration portion of the dive. This should have been realized and the dive modified for her own safety. I have been warned more than once after sm certification to not go in overhead's without training... Only by reading lots on the subject do I understand most of the hazards and some of the safety procedures. Bottom line, I'm not ready or qualified to do that dive and I have no trim, weighting, air consumption or comfort issues. Unbelievable that she was allowed in the wreck at all.I can see her thinking it's safe. After all, they are the pro's.
It's just so sad...

 

[clownfishsydney]

As it is not covered or mentioned in the police report or the coroner's report, I think it is a pretty good "guess" that they did not think of testing for it. I only mentioned what the dive instructor saw as there was no indication any test was done but that at least one person had looked for the signs.

 

[Patoux01]

What brought it together was the pathetic guide that let it happen.

How about "what brought it together was herself that signed up for the dive"? She did literally only training dives. Meaning EVERY dive she has done she had been told "do not go in an overhead".

Blaming a guide for taking you somewhere YOU asked him to take you is stupid.

 

[Coztick]

Was she told about overhead's by her resort dive instructor's? I wasn't warned until sm training. Seems common to ignore safety procedures at this site. I get she should have known she wasn't ready but she had a private guide, what could go wrong? I assume the guide was competent enough to know she wasn't ready or equiped for that site.

 

[clownfishsydney]

Laila was not a resort diver, she was qualifed. Again, it is a matter also of people been trained as "advanced" divers or "rescue" divers and thinking they actually are then advanced or able to rescue someone. Who has ever been told when learning to dive to not go in overhead (environment)? Not me. I have asked many friends and not one has ever had this told to them.

In any case, before Laila died on this wreck, not a single person on a dive run by one of the operators had died. That is pretty remarkable on a wreck that goes to 70 metres, every dive is inside the wreck and literally hundreds of dives are done on it most days (or at least used to be). Why? Because the dive operators used to run such strict dives people safety was paramount and they were looked after. The problem is the newish owner of this operation has ignored all this and also employed guides who are no good.

 

[Patoux01]

I wasn't warned until sm training.

I dug up my old OW book, here's what it shows (page 139). Sorry it's in French. Not sorry for the copyrighted materials I just put up online. The book was printed in 2010. Most likely earlier than that for an English version.

The title is "overhead environment", the red line below the picture reads "A surprisingly easy way to die".

I'm aware she did OW in 2004, but her rescue in 2010.

I'm pretty confident it is also in the rescue and AOW course (I can't access the materials anymore however)...


It might not have been told to you Michael, but I believe you did your courses ages ago... so that could explain.