Unqualified Specialty Instructor

[gonenunu]

I took a specialty course in palau a number of years ago and was certified with instructor signed documentation. Recently, I found out by chance that the instructor was not qualified to teach the specialty at that time (although I was told that he was a certified OWSI at the time). So technically I'm not certified after all. Naturally I am not very happy about it especially considering that is a 5 star padi dive shop (one of the big 3).

The dive shop went as far as admitting that the instructor was not qualified to teach at that time, and distancing themselves from the instructor. However, they refused my request for a refund of the course. Anyone with experience with a long distance claim (half way around the world)? Any suggestions on what I could do? Thanks.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I took a specialty course in palau a number of years ago and was certified with instructor signed documentation. Recently, I found out by chance that the instructor was not qualified to teach the specialty at that time (although I was told that he was a certified OWSI at the time). So technically I'm not certified after all. Naturally I am not very happy about it especially considering that is a 5 star padi dive shop (one of the big 3).

The dive shop went as far as admitting that the instructor was not qualified to teach at that time, and distancing themselves from the instructor. However, they refused my request for a refund of the course. Anyone with experience with a long distance claim (half way around the world)? Any suggestions on what I could do? Thanks.

Did you pay by credit card? If so, you can just revert the charges and provide the documentation supporting your claim.

How a 5 start padi shop would allow a non-qualified instructor teach a course is beyond me. Did you talk to PADI (qm@padi.com)? Though they won't get involved in the dispute.

 

[Zef]

OP, which specialty course are you referring to?

-Z

 

[gonenunu]

It was drift diving

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Come to the 1000 Islands, I'll teach you to drift dive in some super fast conditions for free.

 

[Zef]

I don't think you need to be too concerned about anyone questioning whether or not you are "drift diving" certified. That seems to be one of those PADI type "create a course to make a buck" business model type certifications. There are tons of divers out there that do drift dives and never even thought about being "certified" in doing it. For the most part...whether you took the class and now found you are not certified, or even if you had a c-card for it, you have wasted your money in my opinion.

The general idea is that one should dive in conditions similar to that which they were trained in, but the caveat is that you can and should dive with folks that have more experience than you and if you know your limits and are comfortable with your dive partners, explore the type of sites where they are trained to dive. For instance, if you were trained in clear, warm tropical waters then its probably not a good idea to lead a dive of similar divers in a cold, silty, quarry where there may be 2 meters or less visibility on a good day. But if you know someone who dives those conditions regularly and want to partner up with them to gain experience in that environment then you should use it as an occasion to expand your training and repertoire.

The industry certification agencies are business. It behooves them to create a course where they can charge people to certify people for all the different aspects of diving and some divers eat this up as if it is necessary. But you don't need to take a drysuit class to be proficient at drysuit diving, you don't need to take a night diving class to be proficient at night diving, and you don't need to take a drift diving class to be proficient at drift diving. Just dive with folks who have that experience and learn from them and build your experience resumé....you still need to do that to be proficient even after obtaining a c-card in those ancillary areas anyways.

If this was something like Advanced Open Water or Nitrox, where not having the c-card would definitively impact your ability to do certain paid guided dives, or obtain certain gas mixes, then I would say you should be really pissed off. But for drift diving, meh.

-Z

 

[sunshower]

I both agree and disagree with Zef. A certification for drift diving seems like a waste to me, just another opportunity to grab some coin by PADI. I'm actually kind of surprised such a course exists, but I guess I shouldn't be.

That said, you did pay for the cert and successfully completed it as indicated by the signed documentation, but apparently the instructor wasn't qualified to teach it, so you ended up with nothing for your money. And you say the shop subsequently admitted the instructor wasn't qualified. If they did that in writing you have a pretty strong case for a refund, or at minimum, a credit to come back and retake with a qualified instructor. If you want a refund and can go the path of disputing the charge through your credit card company, that sounds like the easiest solution. If that doesn't work, maybe escalating through PADI would encourage a refund; not sure about that but maybe PADI would take a dim view of a 5-star facility offering classes through unqualified instructors. If you don't have the shop's admission in writing, then I'd let it go; nobody likes losing money but you have to pick your fights.

But all that aside, how was the cert issued if the instructor wasn't qualified? Did you actually get a c-card? It seems like the instructor's qualification should've come into the equation a long time ago.

 

[Wookie]

I don't think you need to be too concerned about anyone questioning whether or not you are "drift diving" certified. That seems to be one of those PADI type "create a course to make a buck" business model type certifications. There are tons of divers out there that do drift dives and never even thought about being "certified" in doing it. For the most part...whether you took the class and now found you are not certified, or even if you had a c-card for it, you have wasted your money in my opinion.

The general idea is that one should dive in conditions similar to that which they were trained in, but the caveat is that you can and should dive with folks that have more experience than you and if you know your limits and are comfortable with your dive partners, explore the type of sites where they are trained to dive. For instance, if you were trained in clear, warm tropical waters then its probably not a good idea to lead a dive of similar divers in a cold, silty, quarry where there may be 2 meters or less visibility on a good day. But if you know someone who dives those conditions regularly and want to partner up with them to gain experience in that environment then you should use it as an occasion to expand your training and repertoire.

The industry certification agencies are business. It behooves them to create a course where they can charge people to certify people for all the different aspects of diving and some divers eat this up as if it is necessary. But you don't need to take a drysuit class to be proficient at drysuit diving, you don't need to take a night diving class to be proficient at night diving, and you don't need to take a drift diving class to be proficient at drift diving. Just dive with folks who have that experience and learn from them and build your experience resumé....you still need to do that to be proficient even after obtaining a c-card in those ancillary areas anyways.

If this was something like Advanced Open Water or Nitrox, where not having the c-card would definitively impact your ability to do certain paid guided dives, or obtain certain gas mixes, then I would say you should be really pissed off. But for drift diving, meh.

-Z

Depends on the course. If the minimum PADI standards were followed in a resort situation then the course was probably worthless, but the course could be a great course done well. Ask anyone who regularly dives the wreck trek in Pompano about high current drifting safety stop diving.

But of course, no one in Pompano will ask to see your card. They will just see what kind of freakshow you are in the water and make their decision about taking you on the big boy panties dives after. Cards don't mean much.

 

[gonenunu]

Did you pay by credit card? If so, you can just revert the charges and provide the documentation supporting your claim.

How a 5 start padi shop would allow a non-qualified instructor teach a course is beyond me. Did you talk to PADI (qm@padi.com)? Though they won't get involved in the dispute.

Would you elaborate on why padi won't get involved in the dispute? Surely qm@padi should want to ensure the legitimacy of certifications?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Would you elaborate on why padi won't get involved in the dispute? Surely qm@padi should want to ensure the legitimacy of certifications?

Personal experience.

They’ll only address certification matters, not financial disputes