You can accept the student but go through all the steps to issue a PADI cert. It used to be you could fill out the URP form and send them back to get their original cert.
Universal Referral Program (URP)
- Thread starter owlbill
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I did not realize that had changed.
It seems to me that this question ought to be asked in a new thread to get more attention. It should be possible for a member of one of the agencies that has traditionally used this service to contact their agency headquarters and get a definitive answer. That would be much preferable to having someone like me throw out a well-intended but out-of-date incorrect answer.
Rob9876
Contributor
Thanks for the replies -- it would be good to hear from instructors from other agencies to see if they still take referrals from agencies other than the one(s) they are part of.
Referrals from Other Organizations
When receiving a referred diver from another training organization for course completion, follow the Referral Procedures in the General Standards and Procedures Guide. To assess the referred diver’s knowledge and skills, administer the Open Water Diver Online Quick Review, ReActivate Quick Review or Open Water Diver course final exam, and conduct a confined water dive that reviews Open Water Diver course skills in preparation for open water training dives.
Basically you are performing a condensed PADI Knowledge Development and Confined Water course as part of accepting the referral from another organization.
I think the big difference between the current referral process and the old URP is that in the current process the PADI instructor performing the Open Water certification dives for a NAUI referral would issue a PADI Open Water Certification. I believe the old URP process had the instructor complete a document and the student would be certified as a NAUI Open Water Diver by the original referring instructor.
It was an option for a PADI instructor before: issue a PADI cert, or send the URP form in so the student could get a NAUI cert, or whatever. PADI recommended against the latter practice, and now does not even mention it in the Instructor Manual as an option.
For example, the 2Q2003 Training bulletin says:
The current information, somewhat hidden on the PADIPRO website is:
“Universal” or “Global” Referrals
The PADI organization is not a proponent of “universal” or “global” referrals for several reasons. Some of these are described in detail below. Generally, legal advice is that it's difficult to defend this type of referral system because the certifying instructor does not see the student diver in the open water, and it can result (and has resulted) in customer service problems for the diver. However, if you choose to participate in this referral system, please make an informed choice.
How does the Universal referral process work?
A student diver presents a scuba instructor with a “universal” or “global” referral document. The student diver has taken initial training through another diver training organization. The instructions on the form direct the instructor to conduct open water dives as outlined on the form and sign a statement on the referral document verifying that the diver completed the dives. The student diver takes the form back to the original instructor who is supposed to certify the diver.
What's PADI’s position on the Universal or Global referral approach, and why?
PADI’s position on the Universal Referral program (and similar approaches) has also remained unchanged since the program was first presented to the RSTC in 1995. This position is based on recommendations from legal counsel regarding the difficulty (perhaps impossibility) of defending a lawsuit resulting from this referral process. Questions and issues that arise include:
• How can an instructor from one agency be familiar enough with the standards and training requirements of a different agency to defend how training was conducted?
• How can the referring (certifying) instructor ascertain that the person conducting the open water dives was even a current, qualified instructor at the time the training occurred?
• How can the certifying organization maintain any quality control whatsoever on the instructor conducting the open water training or have any reasonable way to know that its required open water skills were performed correctly by the student?
One of diving’s most experienced attorneys, William Turbeville, as part of his analysis of the program for PADI, wrote this regarding the issue of an instructor authorizing certification for a diver whose open water training had been conducted by someone else: “It will be considerably more difficult to defend a claim of inadequate instruction if that instructor has never seen that student doing the single most important part of that student’s training – actually scuba diving.”
If I refer my diver to complete training dives elsewhere, may I certify the person as a PADI Diver when the diver returns?
No. Under PADI Standards, only the instructor who conducts the final open water training dive of the course can certify the student diver. Issuing a PADI certification to anyone who you have not personally trained in an open water environment is a serious standards violation.
May I complete open water dives via the “universal” or “global” referral process and send the diver back to the originating instructor for certification?
Choosing to conduct a nonPADI program is completely up to you. These types of referrals are not within the scope of PADI Standards and programs. Therefore, whether or not you accept them is your business choice. It's recommended that you fully inform yourself before making such a decision by thoroughly researching the issue.
What problems have arisen from PADI Instructors accepting a Universal or Global referral?
Customer service issues have been a problem. Universal Referral students have had their open water dives conducted by a PADI Instructor, but the original instructor subsequently refused to issue their certifications resulting in very upset customers.
Accident issues are potentially far more serious. The “Universal Referral Manual” states that divers completing the open water dives receive a temporary card that is valid for 30 days. There have been cases where divers, after completing their Universal Referral open water training dives, went diving in the days following and suffered accidents. The core question is whether or not the divers were qualified divers prior to their original instructor issuing certification, and which party is responsible for the divers. The entire issue is complex and you should be aware of these possible legal complications.
Will insurance offered through Vicencia and Buckley cover me if I participate in Universal or Global referrals?
Yes, if you are the receiving instructor for a Universal or Global referral student and you do the open water training, you’re covered.
I edited my post; it is no longer mentioned in the IM, just in the page from the PADIPRO site.
The 2020 instructor manual calls out what someone above posted, what he posted is in the OW section and it refers to general standards. I get why PADI as an organization can't stand up firmly behind it for the legal reasons and I think what they ask you to do before any open water dives makes perfect sense.
The quote from the PADI Pros site does seem to suggest that PADI pros can participate in the program as before, though.
It is interesting to me that no one from any of the other agencies, the ones that supposedly use the program, have stepped in here.
It is interesting to me that no one from any of the other agencies, the ones that supposedly use the program, have stepped in here.
Not sure what you mean nor to whom ("someone" and "he") you are referring.
My point is the current IM does not mention Universal Referrals, other than obliquely by saying you can accept a non-PADI student but you are to give them a PADI certification after certain hurdles.
NOT in the IM is the specific info about Universal Referrals, which are advised against by PADI for the reasons given. I tend to agree with them; I have no idea what is in a NAUI open water course today (the one I took was 36 years ago) so how can I say the student is meeting the NAUI standards and send them back for a NAUI card?
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