Underwater structure near Okinawa

[iflylow]

And more right angles, and some evidence of a stage area too...

Geoff,

Impressive pictures! I've seen other areas in the waters off Okinawa that have similar structures to what you display in your pictures. One site in particular is off Zamami island in the Keramas. There is a 100 foot tall stone structure sticking out of the water. When I dove in the area just below that, I saw similar structures to what you have in your pictures.

One problem with the similarity is that all of them have stone rubble (the parts that came off) in the immediate area below the flatter structures to include the ones in your pics and the one I described off Zamami Island. Similar to Mt Rushmore in the US, all of that stone has to go somewhere.

With Yonaguni, that rubble isn't beneath the structures. Granted the current is pretty strong but I have a hard time imagining that is strong enough to move multi-ton pieces of rock out of view.

 

[Geoff_H]

Geoff,

Impressive pictures! I've seen other areas in the waters off Okinawa that have similar structures to what you display in your pictures. One site in particular is off Zamami island in the Keramas. There is a 100 foot tall stone structure sticking out of the water. When I dove in the area just below that, I saw similar structures to what you have in your pictures..

I dived in Geruma and Zamami in March this year, pretty islands.

One problem with the similarity is that all of them have stone rubble (the parts that came off) in the immediate area below the flatter structures to include the ones in your pics and the one I described off Zamami Island. Similar to Mt Rushmore in the US, all of that stone has to go somewhere.

I have no problem at all with the idea rocks are eroded and broken down over time in areas of strong currents - being hit by water, particles and other rocks will eventually wear them down and gradually they would be carried away. I've seen cars carried away by tidal swells.

I wasn't claiming those rocks were formed by processes similar to the ones in Yonaguni; I'm no geologist - just refuting the earlier claims that right angles are not found in nature.

 

[iflylow]

I've seen cars carried away by tidal swells.

I've seen the same thing - particularly after the tsunami in Indonesia back in 2004 when I went down there for the recovery effort. The power of the ocean is an incredible thing to behold.

I do think there is a difference here in that the size of the rocks that would have to come off to make the shapes in Yonaguni would preclude them making it very far from the source rock. Normal erosion results in smoother shapes which could absolutely result in no debris beneath the structure.

I'm no geologist - just refuting the earlier claims that right angles are not found in nature.

I fully agree on this.

 

[SKREAM]

Interesting discussion from everyone; but perhaps best put to a geologist. Clearly there are rocky formations that yield right anglesfor large slabs of rock. That the underwater debris is absent is not conclusive of anything; nor is the presence of the right angled stone. Don't we have any geologists on scubaboard to offer input? To find a portion of a wall or other structure, either above the water or below, might give you some idea of whether the stone was formed that way naturally or formed by hand and suggest what uses it may have been put to historically. I am aware that various natural shapes of building material are put to human usage because they appear to be just that- 'useful for building'. just a couple of thoughts

 

[Geoff_H]

I dived the Yonaguni structures with a close friend, who is a trained & active geologist for a Japanese mining company. His thoughts were these formations were of natural origin.

However I am sure there must be expert geologists who have dived these sites far more than we have.

 

[iflylow]

Dr. Kimura is a professor of Geology at the University of the Ryukyus and he is convinced they are man made. He also has studied and dove the structures since shortly after they were discovered.

No definitive evidence on either side here, just educated and uneducated guesses. In any event, they are beautiful structures. The surrounding reef is beautiful and the contrast from the reef to the flat surfaces and step like formations is impressive.

 

[Baracuda Smile]

Dr. Robert M. Schoch is a tenured associate professor of science and mathematics at Boston University's College of General Studies. Trained as a geologist (Ph.D. in geology and geophysics from Yale University), Schoch has done field research in the Canadian High Arctic, the western United States, Pakistan, Egypt, and most recently Japan. Dr. Schoch's latest book is entitled Voices of the Rocks: A Scientist Looks at Catastrophes and Ancient Civilizations (coauthored with Robert Aquinas McNally; Harmony, Crown Publishing Group, Random House Inc., 1999, ISBN 0-609-60369-8). In Voices of the Rocks Dr. Schoch discusses, among other things, his work on the Yonaguni Monument of Japan, the redating of the Great Sphinx, and a new interpretation of ancient history.]

For many decades, indeed for centuries and even millennia, various researchers and writers have searched for the truth behind Plato's lost continent of Atlantis (usually, but not always, considered to have been located in either the Mediterranean Sea or in the Atlantic Ocean), or for the presumed sister continent of Atlantis in the Indian or Pacific Ocean, referred to variously as Mu or Lemuria. By a literal interpretation of Plato's chronology, Atlantis was destroyed cataclysmically around 9500-9600 B.C., and the supposed civilization of Mu is thought to have been even older. Now remains that are considered by some people to be tangible evidence of a lost, highly sophisticated, and very ancient civilization have been located in the Okinawa area under the sea. Could this be Mu or Lemuria?

The structures that have been discovered thus far are all located off the coasts of Okinawa and various islands of the Ryukyu Island chain, Japan. The best publicized and most spectacular of these structures is one located off the southern coast of Yonaguni Island, a small (approximately 10 km by 4 km) Japanese island located east of Taiwan and west of Ishigaki and Iriomote Islands in the East China Sea.

The structure off the coast of Yonaguni has been hailed as "the world's oldest building" (Barot, 1998), taking the form of a "stone ziggurat" dating back to 8000 B.C. (Barot, 1998). If this is actually the case, this could prove to be one of the most important archaeological discoveries of the last fifty years. In order to evaluate the site, I have visited Yonaguni on two separate occasions (in September 1997 at the invitation of the Japanese businessman Mr. Yasuo Watanabe and during July-August 1998 as a member of the "Team Atlantis" underwater archaeological project). On each trip I made several dives on the site...
Yonaguni Enigmatic Underwater Monuments Robert M. Schoch

 

[iflylow]

Great link and article. As Dr. Schoch himself states, there is no conclusive evidence either for or against.

I will say that, no matter the origin, the Yonaguni structures are beautiful and impressive. I certainly lean towards "man modifed" but I am not 100% convinced. I do know that I want to dive the structures again - particularly on a day with little to no current!

 

[Geoff_H]

Reading that article, it is clear which way Dr. Schoch leans:

I believe that this coating of organic material tends to make the surfaces of the Yonaguni Monument appear more regular and homogeneous than they actually are. This, in part, enhances the impression that this must be an artificial, man-made structure.

I became convinced that presently, at the surface, natural wave and tidal action is responsible for eroding and removing the sandstones in such a way that very regular step-like and terrace-like structures remain. The more I compared the natural, but highly regular, weathering and erosional features observed on the modern coast of the island with the structural characteristics of the Yonaguni Monument, the more I became convinced that the Yonaguni Monument is primarily the result of natural geological and geomorphological processes at work. On the surface I also found depressions and cavities forming naturally that look exactly like the supposed "post holes" that some researchers have noticed on the underwater Yonaguni Monument.

In fairness to Dr. Kimura's position, I must point out that he believes that at least some of the surface features that I here interpret as the result of natural weathering and erosion are either man-made or were modified by humans. However, I could not find any surface evidence (such as tool marks on the rock surfaces or carved blocks that had been moved into place) that, in my opinion, would substantiate his contention of artificiality.

However, at this time based on my own findings and analysis, I cannot agree with Dr. Kimura's conclusion that the Yonaguni Monument is primarily a man-made structure

I think it should be considered a primarily natural structure until more evidence is found to the contrary

Basically he says there is zero evidence this is man made, and although he can't rule it out he feels this is natural and should be considered so until even a tiny scrap of evidence is found.

His views are completely in agreement with mine.... I do agree it is a superb dive, and coupled with the hammerheads in winter Yonaguni is a superb diving location. And has some of the best freshest sashimi I've ever had - boat to plate in less than 10 minutes!

 

[Baracuda Smile]

Basically he says there is zero evidence this is man made, and although he can't rule it out he feels this is natural and should be considered so until even a tiny scrap of evidence is found.

His views are completely in agreement with mine.... I do agree it is a superb dive, and coupled with the hammerheads in winter Yonaguni is a superb diving location. And has some of the best freshest sashimi I've ever had - boat to plate in less than 10 minutes!

HMMM it is amazing how two people get different opinions from the same article, when I posted the article it seemed to me that Dr. Schoch and Dr Kimura seem to both believe that Yonaguni was teraformed, or humans carved the monument out of live rock.

I chose to post Dr. Schoch's paper versus Dr. Kimura's paper because I thought a western take on a asian structure wouldbe more convincing. However it is also very interesting to read Dr. Kimura's paper because Okinawan, and Asian building techniques are very different than western civilizations. For instance in the West Humans must have iron to able to cut rock thus created the Iron Age. Dr. Kimura sugested eastern man used hard wood wedges put into drill holes that when soaked in water expanded much like frost heaves break up roads in the northern USA. These drill holes can be found on Yonaguni, and other places. These drill holes are all in line, in order to create a frature in the rock along a straight line much like spliting wood. I found this peice as interesting as the stone pottery.