Undergarment for TLS350?

[graasmin]

hello,

i am about to get my first dry suit. i am getting a tls350 with turbo boots. i have not decided on my underwear of choice yet. i am holding on my order at DUI until i know what to tell them i will have underneath. unfortunately i am trying to make this decision somewhat quickly as i am trying to get my suit ready in time for a monterey trip in june.

I am tall and skinny (6'3" 170lbs) and get cold very easily.
my average dive temps these days seem to be about 45-65.
i am a moderately active diver (i move around a fair amount).

the things i have been looking at are: Weezle extreme and extreme +, Fourth Element subzero and arctic, Whites MK3 and various DUI options.

i understand that the thinsulate suits are less flexible, but they give the impression of being warmer. i like that. but i understand that something like a dui powerstretch or the fourth dimension stuff is more flexible.

considering that i am in a trilam and not crushed neoprene and that i get cold easily... thoughts?

all help is appreciated.

josh

 

[ScubaAl]

I did a dive yesterday in about 39 degree water for 32 min used the Fourth Element Arctic for the first time.
I also had a light weight smartwool shirt under on top and light weight polyprop bottom.
Stay warm enough except for my hands. My drysuit is a DUI clx450. Al

 

[Narcist21]

Second the Fourth Element. I've used it in SoCal for the past couple months and love it, I will say that the coldest I've been in though is 46. If you go that route make sure you get a good base layer.

 

[graasmin]

thanks. from what i underdstand, there is a really considerable difference between the warmth of the heavier crushed neporene suits and a full shell suit like the tls350. anyone have experience with the tls350?

 

[piikki]

Usually they do not need to know exactly what brands of undies you are going to be wearing underneath but what type or whether you will be doing cold water diving and plan to need to lot of thermal proctection (like you obviously are). DUI will then plan for 400gr equivalent "undie space" for you. Unless you want the suit to be very snug most people find that somewhat adequate cut.

I dive TLS350 and have been very happy with it. I have no experience with neoprene suits but I firmly believe that underwear is the part of the suit that is supposed to keep you warm. However, I am sure neoprene would create a warmer first barrier between you and water. For most of the year I just would not want to deal with such a heavy suit for my diving (and I dive in cold water all the time). TLS is great suit because it's so light, and dries quickly.

 

[graasmin]

hey piikki,

thanks for the reply. since you are diving tls350 in cold this is very helpful. so are you saying that your undergarments are in that 400gr size range? what do you use? my instinct is definitely for something like that (heavy thinsulate liekt he dui400 or a weezle). do you have any experience with what it would be like to get into a tls350 with something heavier like a 400 if they have cut it for a 200? in other words, if it is cut for a smaller undergarment, is it impossible and pointless to use a heavier undergarment?

thanks again.
i'm sure i sound super newbie. i am. but i got heart.

josh

 

[darylm74]

I have a TLS350 with the Weezle Extreme. I am comfortable in just those down to about 45. When I get below that or for extended times I am going to put a base layer underneath it. If you get cold quickly I would go for the Extreme +, but my friend has the fourth element and really likes them.

 

[do it easy]

My old suit was compressed neoprene and my current suit is the CLX450. The difference in warmth is quite dramatic. I used to be fine with a few layers of light fleece under the neoprene suit. With the trilam suit, it feels like it has the insulation properties of a trash bag. I did a test dive in December with the new suit and the old fleece- I *thought* I had a full suit flood and that I was soaking wet. It turns out I was just cold, but still bone dry.

I dive freshwater 35f-45f. I use a Weezle Extreme+ and that seems to do the trick for me. When the water gets into the 30's I wouldn't say that I'm toasty warm and sweating, but it's OK.

On the custom cut order form, I think they have a few options for how to overcut the suit to fit the undergarments. I selected the "DUI Thinsulate Ultra 400 or equivalent" option. I was told that the "Considerably thicker than ..." option would be too baggy for most people.

With a trilam suit, if you get it too small, you'll lose flexibility and mobility. You might not be able to bend your arms or reach your valves. This would be a deal breaker to me.

 

[dbulmer]

Graasmin
I dive cold water with a DUI clone and use a 400g and a standard Xerotherm underneath that. I do get cold quite easily.

If you are going for a 400g Thinsulate B it will be worth your while talking to a supplier before buying. First reason is that if the undersuit is too restrictive it will restrict your flexibility - particularly if you need to close a tank valve - second reason is that it will feel uncomfortable.


Another reason for a 400g is if your suit floods then you won't get as cold as quickly as with some other undersuits as heat is retained - the same is true of the Xerotherm range. A downside of the 400g is that you should not wash them so over time it can get a little bit unpleasant for your buddies (Febreze can help). A second downside of a 400g is that they lose their warmth over time and need replacing - the frequency of this will be determined by how much you dive and funds.

An initial frustration you will have with the 400g is that it's quite buoyant to start with - you would probably need to add 5/6 pounds early on - this will drop over time but can be a little disconcerting the first time you use the undersuit.

The advantages of the Xerotherm are that they are flexible and washable but expensive. The Arctic is often used by divers over here but my own view is that they are not warm enough for me. I bought a Xerotherm to put inside the 400g - although on a warm day you can sweat a bit the Xerotherm has excellent wicking properties and from experience both the 400g and Xerotherm do retain heat when your suit is fully flooded (Happened to me last year when I had full suit flood).

I've seen the newer Xerotherm and I think they look nice and I have spoken to a tech instructor who was impressed with it but again I'm not sure how warm this would be in the middle of winter for me personally.

 

[piikki]

hey piikki,

thanks for the reply. since you are diving tls350 in cold this is very helpful. so are you saying that your undergarments are in that 400gr size range? what do you use? my instinct is definitely for something like that (heavy thinsulate liekt he dui400 or a weezle). do you have any experience with what it would be like to get into a tls350 with something heavier like a 400 if they have cut it for a 200? in other words, if it is cut for a smaller undergarment, is it impossible and pointless to use a heavier undergarment?

thanks again.
i'm sure i sound super newbie. i am. but i got heart.

josh

Nothing wrong being new. I was new getting my drysuit and nervous I would get it all wrong. It's a big investment. I have not regretted getting the TLS - even though, like you, I get cold easily and I have to say that if I ever started ice diving or the likes, I would probably have to get neoprene suit. There is a limit how much undies one can stuff on before losing all reason! I don't see it an impossible future scenario to get a used (CHEAP) neo suit to cover me for the absolute extreme temps but most of my diving is done in thermoclines when I would boil on preparing in hot/heavy neo suit and then on ascents in warmer water. (I can't tolerate heat too well either).

Anyhow, trilam is very unforgiving like DIE said. If it's cut snug you might be able to stuff more undies on but you won't be able to do what you need to do. My advice for you would be absolutely not to get anything like cave cuts or 200gr cuts if you get cold easily! I have also heard about the bagginess for heavier than 400gr cuts. I have no experience on Weezle but apparently that does not take as much space? I would still opt for 400gr cut for northern diving. They will still cut it 400gr to YOUR measurements if you order custom (ie if you are skinny it will not be a generic 400gr cut).

At the moment I dive 4th Element Arctics or Diving Concepts TPS Extreme (thinsulate) jumpsuit. I do not dive much under 40F because I cannot tolerate it but with both of those undies I will have some polypro (like EMS) undies underneath, and still cannot handle it for long time even in 40-45F. I did not like DUI 400gr undies (mainly because of the fit), and didn't feel like it was any warmer than either of my undies. Both of my undies take less space than DUI's thickest underwear. I am eagerly awaiting new 4th Element SubZero reviews. I would like to try Weezle but I am scared of the venting issues with those suits.