Undercurrent--"Why Divers Die"

[Fish_Whisperer]

Exactly. what's wrong with the thought that if you love diving so much you can seek out good training and stay in the pool until your diving skills are squared away? But that's not how things are done in the dive industry though is it?

THIS hits the nail on the head!

After graduating OW, I spent literally HOURS in the pool at the local rec center. Removing my mask, putting back on, clearing it. Throwing away my reg, recovering it, purging it, breathing on it again. Throwing away my primary and grabbing my secondary. Jumping into the pool with my air turned off, purposely, so that if it ever happened, I would be prepared. Shucking and donning my gear underwater. Jumping in with loose cam-straps so my tank would slip and I would have to fix it underwater...

I had my instructor meet me at the pool one day, and after putting a black-out kit on my mask, I let him thread 100' of rope all through my gear and all around me, to simulate a bad entanglement in low-viz conditions.

I also refreshed my First Aid and CPR classes/certifications.

From what little diving I've done, I've still managed to extrapolate what skills would serve me best, and what I needed to do in order to be the very best diver I could possibly be. To that end, I have continued my training. I am in the middle of Rescue Diver, at the moment. I've taken Search & Recovery, Dry Suit, Nitrox, and Underwater Liftbag Operations. Every bit of training that becomes available in the future, and as I can afford it, I will be taking it, and then taking that training and practicing and practicing and practicing those skills until they are as natural as breathing, itself.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

I call this theory flawed until anyone can show the corollation and confidence of the conclusions. I don't doubt obesity can play a role, I just don't think its the 'key' factor in the discussion (or even of major significance compared to other factors)

Ultimately, we when look at dive accidents, we have only a few true causes.
1) Act of God
2) Diver Error (at some level)
3) Catastrophic Equipment malfuntion (IE, when no dive skills could prevent injury)

OK, in the above scenario, only 1 rates as a true 'accident' and that the Act of God. The rest have some level of human interaction. If you do everything right, and still get to #3, you are likely looking at injury rather than death. It happens, kinda the Act of God thing. The rest fall into Diver error.

So what causes Diver Error. My opinion, from reading several years of DAN reports, seeing students in the water and seeing divers locally, is a lack of fundemental dive skills and moreover, divers who cannot make an accurate risk assessment of the dive and thier skills. Essentially, divers who are undertrained/underprepared for the dives they plan to do.

When you take underprepared divers, throw them into an evironment that takes all of their skills and then some, you will start to see different stressors come into play to trigger an accident. Can you say that it was only water temperature, night/darkness, Obesity, overwieghting, underwieghting, surge, current, or equipment failure that was the one causal factor for the accident - NO. Its a combination of them all to differnt degrees. From what I read in this thread, many are attacking one stressor (obesity), which is argueably the hardest for many people to address. We should really be looking to elimate/reduce the other causal agents that are much easier to deal with.

But alas, its much easier to claim overwieght people are a danger to everyone around them than it is to admit most divers need more training/guidance than they have, even though they have a C card that says they have enough.

VERY well said!! Hear Hear!!

 

[fisherdvm]

I hate to bring up my own personal experience. I think an additional factor that comes into play is that obese divers have compromised respiration from their dive suit.

I am a very thin diver, well into the skinny category. However, my medium/large frame cause me to wear rental suits that are tight in the chest. This severely compromise my breathing due to shallow breaths.

My theory is, in addition to being out of shape, obese divers are also compromised by the tighness of their wet suit (if they were wearing one) with their dives. This in turn caused increased air consumption (in addition to being out of shape).

I think that is one of the main reason why many obese divers dive without wetsuits. It is hard to find one that fits, and custom suits are too expensive for the recreational divers.

I thin DM and instructors should point the need for proper sizing of suits of all divers, especially of obese divers.

 

[95yj]

Statistics will tell you whatever you want them to and give you the figures to back up your statements. Did you know that 75% of the people on this planet make up three fourths of population? DAN is a good organization doing good things, but they quote statistics too much for my liking. They should stick to reporting the facts.

That said, being overweight has little to do with any of this. It's more what kind of shape you are in. Unfortunately if you are overweight you have a better chance of being "out of shape". I've seen plenty of big people dive well and be able to handle their equipment and themselves well in and out of the water. I've also seen large people dive who should not be in the water and probably shouldn't ever get out of their motorized cart at WalMart. Add to that they have to wear a stupid amount of lead when they are huffing and puffing when moving about before they put on their weight belt and you have an accident waiting to happen.

I think the key here is that if you are going to participate in any sport, you should be in the kind of shape it takes to function in that sport without hurting yourself or others.

 

[stepup]

I hate to bring up my own personal experience. I think an additional factor that comes into play is that obese divers have compromised respiration from their dive suit.

I am a very thin diver, well into the skinny category. However, my medium/large frame cause me to wear rental suits that are tight in the chest. This severely compromise my breathing due to shallow breaths.

My theory is, in addition to being out of shape, obese divers are also compromised by the tighness of their wet suit (if they were wearing one) with their dives. This in turn caused increased air consumption (in addition to being out of shape).

I think that is one of the main reason why many obese divers dive without wetsuits. It is hard to find one that fits, and custom suits are too expensive for the recreational divers.

I thin DM and instructors should point the need for proper sizing of suits of all divers, especially of obese divers.

Thats Bull$h!t My wetsuit fits me just fine and if you get a rental suit that fits you good there are no worries. So dont try to play that role they make different sizes for that simple reason. And your right they are expensive but what in this sport is not expensive.

 

[OHGoDive]

but what in this sport is not expensive.

Lively debate!

 

[vladimir]

BMI is not an indicator of fitness. It is a measure of body fat based on height and weight. The National Institute of Health has some good information on BMI and its limitations at http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/obesity/lose_wt/risk.htm#limitations

The assessment of overweight involves three factors:
BMI;
waist circumference; and
risk factors for diseases and conditions associated with obesity

I suggest that it is the combination of these that should be the focus and not just BMI.

Your link discusses possible limitations in using BMI to assess an individual's fitness. While I agree that it does not measure the fitness of an individual, I would be surprised if it isn't a good measure of fitness in a population. People keep posting examples of fat, fit individuals they know of. I'm sure they exist. But if 30% of the American population has a BMI over thirty (let's say) than they are, by and large, fat and probably unfit.

 

[MikeFerrara]

So what causes Diver Error. My opinion, from reading several years of DAN reports, seeing students in the water and seeing divers locally, is a lack of fundemental dive skills and moreover, divers who cannot make an accurate risk assessment of the dive and thier skills. Essentially, divers who are undertrained/underprepared for the dives they plan to do.

When you take underprepared divers, throw them into an evironment that takes all of their skills and then some, you will start to see different stressors come into play to trigger an accident. Can you say that it was only water temperature, night/darkness, Obesity, overwieghting, underwieghting, surge, current, or equipment failure that was the one causal factor for the accident - NO. Its a combination of them all to differnt degrees. From what I read in this thread, many are attacking one stressor (obesity), which is argueably the hardest for many people to address. We should really be looking to elimate/reduce the other causal agents that are much easier to deal with.

But alas, its much easier to claim overwieght people are a danger to everyone around them than it is to admit most divers need more training/guidance than they have, even though they have a C card that says they have enough.

Good way of putting it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Your link discusses possible limitations in using BMI to assess an individual's fitness. While I agree that it does not measure the fitness of an individual, I would be surprised if it isn't a good measure of fitness in a population. People keep posting examples of fat, fit individuals they know of. I'm sure they exist. But if 30% of the American population has a BMI over thirty (let's say) than they are, by and large, fat and probably unfit.

But...if a BMI of 30 is indicative of someone who will have trouble performing dive related tasks (must be true if they get killed diving), wouldn't you expect these people to have trouble getting certified? They don't though and you have to wonder what else is getting though, huh?

 

[vladimir]

you have to wonder what else is getting though, huh?

I agree with you Mike, that poor skills/training are probably the primary cause of diver deaths. Perhaps obesity is the straw that often breaks the camel's back when poorly trained divers get into trouble.