Unclear on PADI Adv. OW Reqs

[Indian Valley Scuba]

If you're taking your specialty training, or heck, if you are just a regular customer at your local dive center, they should be happy to process your Adventure and/or Advanced Diver certifications at their cost, which is less than $15 per cert. At least that is how we treat our divers - you can't expect to make money off of someone every time they visit you! If they've completed the prerequisites, and they are buying gear, or buying training, or buying dives, then pass the certs through at cost - you'll be rewarded many times over.

 

[rstofer]

If you have those 3 or 4 Specialty certs, when you get the Deep Specialty there is similarly no reason to get AOW

Unless a dive operator wants to see an AOW card and isn't interested in the reviewing specialties.

True that Rescue trumps AOW for PADI but not for NAUI. Again, these are distinctions that many operators don't want to think about. They want to see an AOW card or something clearly better: MSD, DM, Inst.

Richard

 

[oddible]

Just got off the phone with PADI since everyone I talk to (including this board and local dive shops) has different permutations on the answer. Here's what they told me:

Advanced Open Water Course
Includes 5 dives:
Deep, Navigation, + 3 from their elective group (Dry Suit, Photography, etc.)
Requires knowledge development and review from their Advanced OW manual.

They said that taking 5 individual specialties would not get me certified as Advanced Open Water but it would get me close. It could get me the 5 dives from 5 different specialties but it would not necessarily get me the knowledge development / review. They said that they do not require that people buy the Advanced Open Water book to complete their specialties so they wouldn't necessarily have the knowledge development / review portion of the course. While some dive shops may have students read the appropriate portion of the Advanced OW book for a specialty, most do not. Likewise, no dive shops would require the review test from the AdvOW book chapter related to the specialty.

If a diver had 5 specialties, they could get the Advanced Open Water manual and complete the knowledge review to complete their Advanced Open Water certification.

In reflection I think I'll just take the Advanced Open Water course then go back for my specialties as my interest and funds allow.

 

[ScubaDocER]

In reflection I think I'll just take the Advanced Open Water course then go back for my specialties as my interest and funds allow.

Sounds like a wise move. What you may find is that you need not necessarily receive a certification in a specialty to be able to dive. You don't need a Deep Diving specialty to dive deep. You just need the guidance and the direction that can and should be provided in an AOW course to do the deep dives, including gas management, depth awareness, and exit strategies. Once you have completed your AOW, you can chose the areas that appeal to you and explore them then.

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

Just got off the phone with PADI since everyone I talk to (including this board and local dive shops) has different permutations on the answer. Here's what they told me:

Advanced Open Water Course
Includes 5 dives:
Deep, Navigation, + 3 from their elective group (Dry Suit, Photography, etc.)
Requires knowledge development and review from their Advanced OW manual.

They said that taking 5 individual specialties would not get me certified as Advanced Open Water but it would get me close. It could get me the 5 dives from 5 different specialties but it would not necessarily get me the knowledge development / review. They said that they do not require that people buy the Advanced Open Water book to complete their specialties so they wouldn't necessarily have the knowledge development / review portion of the course. While some dive shops may have students read the appropriate portion of the Advanced OW book for a specialty, most do not. Likewise, no dive shops would require the review test from the AdvOW book chapter related to the specialty.

If a diver had 5 specialties, they could get the Advanced Open Water manual and complete the knowledge review to complete their Advanced Open Water certification.

In reflection I think I'll just take the Advanced Open Water course then go back for my specialties as my interest and funds allow.

In order to complete a PADI specialty dive, you must complete a Knoelwedge Review that typcially runs about 20 questions long. The first 10 questions comprise the knowledge review that is part of the Adventures in Diving manual. So, therefore, if you completed the 20 question review, how did you miss the first ten questions?

That of course is rhetorical question. If you have completed the specialty then you have surpassed what was required for the adventure dive, which is, by PADI definition, Dive #1 of the respective specialty. So, assuming two of the specialties were Deep and Navigation, you have, without question, completed the PADI requirements.

If you would not mind PM'ing me and sharing who you spoke to at PADI, it would be apreciated. As a PADI Course Director I take the accuracy of the information shared here pretty seriously. I would like to find out how they could not have accurately answered the question you asked.

Thanks

 

[Damselfish]

In reflection I think I'll just take the Advanced Open Water course then go back for my specialties as my interest and funds allow.

I think that makes the most sense - if it partly happens, it happens, but don't try too hard to muddle AOW and specialty courses together. The AOW card is useful to have for practical reasons, just do it and keep it simple. As said it's pretty much OW part 2 anyway.

Then take only specialty classes you decide will really be good and useful, whether that is 1 or 10. You probably won't find 5 you want to take, at least not right away, maybe not ever. If you try to take 5 specialties for the sake of doing AOW that way, you are liable to find yourself taking things you don't find all that valuable just to get 5 done.

I also wouldn't get hung up on trying to use the AOW dive for a specialty as the first dive of a specialty course, unless perhaps it saves you a bunch of time or money and that matters a lot to you. If you've found a specialty class worth taking, more dives is better. The training is the point, not just getting it done.

 

[Black Water Diver]

You are kind of right. The 5 required adventure dives can be credited toward your rankingsof being a specialty diver in those particular specialties. My suggestion is to definetely get the Advanced Diver cert first so if you take a trip abroad it will allow you to go on deeper dives. The resort of dive company you would dive with may not allow you to go on deeper dives even if you have the adventure deep dives completed, it woudl be there call as well as night diving.

if you use Night Diving as one of your adventures then you are also good to go on night dives.

With my students i try to convince them to do the AOW first and use each of the adventures towards their Specialties if they want to become Master Divers.

AOW is a good thing. I hope that helps.

 

[oddible]

@IndianValleyScuba - so what you're saying is that there is an equivalent knowledge review in each specialty that is inclusive of and covers more than what would be covered in the related section of the Advanced Open Water course?

The PADI rep suggested that PADI dive shops don't require their specialty students to get the Advanced Open Water book (which I assume means the Adventures in Diving book - PADI Adventure Diver) and therefore would not offer the equivalent knowledge as you would get in the Advanced Open Water course. If they don't use the book, from where is the knowledge review derived? The Advanced Open Water course website suggests 9 course hours + dive time. This seems like a lot for 5 specialty dives.

My whole purpose in this line of questioning is to evaluate whether I need to take the Advanced Open Water course. I'm already certain that I am finishing my Dry Suit, and taking Deep and Night specialties. Underwater Nav seems reasonable and is required. At this point I only have one specialty left that is yet unknown - likely Wreck or Photography (though I will certainly be getting EANitrox as well). Is there not a book associated with these specialties? Does the book associated with the specialties cover less than the related portion of the Advanced Open Water book? Does the Advanced Open Water book cover additional stuff beyond just the specialty dive info?

Well... this isn't getting any clearer despite my call to PADI. At this point Advanced Open Water course is my quickest way to diving to 30m so I'm still leaning in that direction despite this frustrating ambiguity.

 

[mrdohc]

Other than giving money away, there is no reason to get an Adventure Diver cert after 3 or 4 Specialties; you are already past that diver level. This is kind of like the Assistant Instructor cert; the only two reasons for AI are Instructor Candidates that can't pass the Instructor course or IE and for an IDC assisting Instructor to get AI certs on the path to Instructor Trainer.

If you have those 3 or 4 Specialty certs, when you get the Deep Specialty there is similarly no reason to get AOW; you are already past that diver level so why pay for the lower cert? Get your Rescue and then if you want to PAY for a cert PAY for Master Scuba Diver.

But you have to be certified as Advance Open Water Diver before you can apply for Master Scuba Diver.
See quote below from 2010 PADI Instructor Manual:

Certification Requirements
• 12 years old
Note: 12-14 year old divers may earn Junior Master Scuba Diver certifications.
• Certified as a PADI (Junior) Advanced Open Water Diver, a PADI (Junior) Rescue Diver, and certification in five PADI Specialty courses.
Note: Specialty diver certifications must be PADI – no other certifications qualify.
• Logged 50 dives

 

[mrdohc]

Other than giving money away, there is no reason to get an Adventure Diver cert after 3 or 4 Specialties; you are already past that diver level. This is kind of like the Assistant Instructor cert; the only two reasons for AI are Instructor Candidates that can't pass the Instructor course or IE and for an IDC assisting Instructor to get AI certs on the path to Instructor Trainer.

If you have those 3 or 4 Specialty certs, when you get the Deep Specialty there is similarly no reason to get AOW; you are already past that diver level so why pay for the lower cert? Get your Rescue and then if you want to PAY for a cert PAY for Master Scuba Diver.

In order to complete a PADI specialty dive, you must complete a Knoelwedge Review that typcially runs about 20 questions long. The first 10 questions comprise the knowledge review that is part of the Adventures in Diving manual. So, therefore, if you completed the 20 question review, how did you miss the first ten questions?

That of course is rhetorical question. If you have completed the specialty then you have surpassed what was required for the adventure dive, which is, by PADI definition, Dive #1 of the respective specialty. So, assuming two of the specialties were Deep and Navigation, you have, without question, completed the PADI requirements.

If you would not mind PM'ing me and sharing who you spoke to at PADI, it would be apreciated. As a PADI Course Director I take the accuracy of the information shared here pretty seriously. I would like to find out how they could not have accurately answered the question you asked.

Thanks

There is no requirement to complete knowledge review in some specialty course which does not have manual such as Multi-Level Diver. However it is a requirement to complete knowledge review for adventure dive to count it as part of the AOW cert. So if you opt to do multilevel diver specialty and use it as part of your AOW cert, then you must finish the knowledge review in the Adventure in Diving manual.