umm

[Drew Sailbum]

oversea once bubbled...
My instructor is not an idiot and is not endangering me, nor is he conflicting with allowable terms.

Your instructor is violating training standards which he has agreed to uphold. I do not know why. I encourage you to ask yourself why.

Other agencies may have different standards, but you are taking a PADI Enriched Air course without the required prerequisites. That seems like a conflict to me.

 

[oversea]

Why should I bother anymore with this board? I came as a new guy to learn and all I ever see is figthting and bickering. Why is it such a big deal to some, and others perfectly normal? I made the mistake of responding to a post and now I'm being nailed to a cross. There has been a handful of people that offered some encouragement and I do appreciate it. I want to advance and learn, Period. Also, I could see a stronger argument if I was going for cave diving or deep or wreck or trimix or solo etc. That would be rediculous. Nitrox is not much different than plain air you all know it and in the depths that I will be going, I won't notice a thing except extended bottom time. I should'nt be in any situations in the near future that would cause problems with oxygen toxicity. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be sarcastic or a nowitall. Because the fact is, I only know what I've been taught and am trying to learn more from experienced people but truthfully, am not getting very far. Also, keep in mind, its done, I can't undo the courses.

 

[Scubaroo]

...take a chill pill. No-one is nailing you to a cross, but rather debating over whether or not your instructor violated standards. As you mentioned, several of the posts in this thread are encouraging you, and applauding the instructor for teaching open water and nitrox together. Other posters see it less clear-cut, and feel that standards have been violated. Standards which differ agency to agency. NAUI, for example, as NetDoc mentioned.

You're not being singled out or picked on. Your questions as a new diver are more than welcome - just be prepared to deal with the fact that this is a public board open for everyone to see, and as in real life, has its fair share of conflicts. Stick it out, you'll learn a lot.

Now back to our regular programming...

 

[oversea]

Hey, I'm not upset, I got everyones point and made mine, but the fact remains this post is really going nowhere. I would love it if instead someone would point out something I could use, or something to expect rather than focus and when I did it. Reading back on all the posts, nobody has been able to argue that in fact nitrox is other than a highly useful tool that is safe when used with a bit of care and thought, right. I appreciate everyone posting and questioning it, I really do, but it seems to be getting ugly.

 

[The Chairman]

I was pretty sure that PADI allowed it as well. I do not have their requirements in front of me, but the wording about their NitrOx dives led me to believe that it too, could be taken concurrently.

I know for a fact that there is no restriction on what gas a diver uses if there is an instructor present. Whether the PADI pic-cards are sent in together or a day apart makes no difference. Of course, you would never send in for a NitrOx card BEFORE your OW card.

I am just happy that NAUI has absolutely NO PROBLEMS with concurrent certifications. At least 50% of my students earn their NitrOx with their OW. It could be that they just like the price. :tease:

 

[oversea]

It could be the price, but for me it was the concept and actually as cheesy as it sounds, a thirst for knowlege. you know, come to think of it, I almost paid as much for my cert as nitrox. I also will be getting my nitrox card after the fact.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Whether its a good idea or not to do open water and nitrox courses concurently can be debated endlessly. But if you want to go that route, there are ways for all of this to be done "by the book" easily. For some reason your instructor chose not to comply with standards.

Here, I see a clear warning sign. The particular combination of courses that your instructor chose is technically a problem. This is something that a typical open water student would not be expected to know.

And if I were in your shoes, now I would want to know why my instructor chose to ignore this training standard. Was it ignorance of the standard, or a conscious decision to ignore it? Makes a real difference in my book as to whether I would choose to take more classes from this instructor.

 

[oversea]

I see your point, but the guy always does things in excess. If the rule is 3 min stop, he says five, if you should have 400psi once surfaced he goes 800 etc. He's not a young guy diving for only a few years(over 40 yrs) and knows everything (like my brother in law). He's a very conservative safety conscious diver so while you are arguing correctly that it is not the standard, I don't think he's playing games.

 

[Hoppy]

oversea,

Iwasn't having a go at you but I suppose at your Instructor (and any others who teach Nitrox to OW).

I am guilty of typing before thinking as Scubaroo very rightly and eloquently pointed out Of course you wouldn't be putting OW students in a sit where Ox Tox was an issue.

I must I must I must remember to think before "speaking".

If I caused any grief or upset that was not my intention.

I am returning to the underside of my stone to contemplate the error of my ways.

Hoppy

 

[tinman]

NetDoc once bubbled...
if their skills are that poor.

2) The instructor shouldn't be teaching if he lets them get away.

3) Who would take OW students into an area where they could descend lower than 60'???

4) The tables are SOOOO fresh in their mind that understanding EAD is a no brainer... well almost a no brainer. OK, OK, they will still have to use their brain, but at least I don't have to re-teach the tables.

...if I understand what Drew has posted, you are in direct violation of Padi standards and would be risking a great deal with this practice. I would check if that is also the case with Naui (sorry, edited thread, noticed you're a Naui instructor).

Imagine a couple that come to you wanting OW & take Nitrox concurrently just before going on a Liveaboard vacation...they go on the fun excursion, opt for the Nitrox & one of them gets a OxTox hit due to lack of situational awareness and bouyancy control why looking at all the pretty fish. Guess who the survivor may come gunning for and the insurance carrier and Padi (and Naui?) would likely leave you high and dry as this is clearly not to the standards. If one says it's ok (Naui?) and one doesn't (Padi), is there not a risk of this being used against you? Am I wrong?? You may well have given some lawyers a whole new revenue source. If you continue thinking it's the right thing to do, that's fine, just consider that it might be time to put the house & stock portfolio in your wife's name...