U.S. economy

[1_T_Submariner]

IT hasn't affected mine too much. We have lived below our means for years no big loans etc....

 

[drbill]

I'm definitely diving less, much less, than I did a few months ago... but it's not directly related to the economy.

However, I'd like to "thank" all those who knowing bought property that they couldn't afford, as well as those who gave them mortgages on those properties knowing this was the case. Although I have not been directly hurt by the sub-prime market or stock market crash, I'm now getting a measly 2.2% of my CD's. I did everything "right..." bought a house I could actually afford, and did not take any money out of it to finance other "stuff," and I saved rather than bought on credit.

If the government is going to bailout the bankers who made such stupid mistakes, and possibly the speculators who "banked" on perpetually rising housing prices, I think they should instead reward those of us who did things the proper way. I'm mad as hell (whatever that means... is hell actually capable of being angry?).

 

[Geoff_H]

The entire concept of the stock market as an investment vehicle for small investors is unbelievably bizarre.

Not really, in fact the concept of investing capital in companies is very sound indeed. But you need to have an understanding of committing your capital for 10-20 years at a minimum, which is something most people can't get their heads around.

If you are prepared to do this, then you can ride out the ups and downs, including the crashes and you'll receive a steady stream of dividends and stakes in companies that you can sell for a long more than you paid for them.

I do agree that investing in the stock market for shorter time periods than 10-20 years is more akin to gambling, but the odds are still stacked in your favour and get better the longer you can commit to.

 

[vladimir]

If the government is going to bailout the bankers who made such stupid mistakes, and possibly the speculators who "banked" on perpetually rising housing prices, I think they should instead reward those of us who did things the proper way.

I am at heart a free-marketeer, so I have a lot of sympathy for this point of view. And I have had a profitable year at work, so I am not one of those speculators in need of a bailout. If the market continues lower I will probably profit more. But I think this is one of those cases where we should be careful what we wish for. As banks go bankrupt and take their counterparties with them, some very well-run institutions will go broke as well; companies that "did things the right way." (Goldman Sachs is under pressure and they started this crisis short sub-prime debt.) And smaller companies (like mine) might be temporarily out of business as our prime brokers go under. So--as has already been noted in this thread--although few people have much sympathy for unemployed traders, they might miss the money I spend traveling to dive destinations, paying taxes, etc. And they might wax nostalgic for Lehman Brothers and Washington Mutual when Nomura and Societe Generale step in to fill the void and another industry is ceded to foreign domination.

 

[ScubaJoy65]

Thankfully I have my own boat,gear and live in the Keys so I dive as much as possible and tomorrow will be one of those diving days

Now THAT sounds like THE life. I'm happy for you and jealous at the same time

 

[ketchumid]

It’s a shame- we lost a ton in our IRAs but also my daughter’s college savings funds. I guess all the prudent savings these last 10 years are a bit questionable now.

Diving- we will not be going on a vacation this year like normal, however I did book and pay for a trip to Cozumel next Feb before the big hit. So that will be my diving for year. We don’t live in an area where we can drive to dive so unfortunately it really has cut into the sport for me. However- Diving is a privilege- not a right, so I’m happy for the ½ loaf of bread.

 

[Web Monkey]

If the government is going to bailout the bankers who made such stupid mistakes, and possibly the speculators who "banked" on perpetually rising housing prices, I think they should instead reward those of us who did things the proper way. I'm mad as hell (whatever that means... is hell actually capable of being angry?).

My "sympathy level" for the lenders that lost out on mortgages that they knew were extremely high risk, the borrowers who thought that as long as the bank was willing to cough up the money, everything was great, and the investors that bought securities based on high risk mortgages hovers around zero.

The government should tell all of the above "hey, you gambled and lost." and let it go at that. People who were genuinely mislead by the mortgage companies should be allowed to sue and recover damages from the lender, including personal liability for all the officers.

Terry

 

[Charlie99]

The entire concept of the stock market as an investment vehicle for small investors is unbelievably bizarre. It's no more of a sure thing than going to Las Vegas,.....

Warren Buffet invests. Small investors "spin the wheel" where most of the slots say "You Lose".

Warren Buffet looks at the COMPANY, not the stock. He decides whether the company is in a good business and well run.

In my investments, following that same philosophy has done me well. Stock shares are ownership of a company. A very tiny slice, but still ownership. So I look at a company to see if it is a company that I want to own at the price that it is available for sale.

Stock prices don't always reflect the true value of the underlying business, but over the long term, the stock price will indeed be a reflection of how good the business is doing and how good its future prospects are.

Evaluating whether or not you should buy a specific stock shouldn't be all that different than deciding whether or not you'd like to buy that ice cream shop around the corner. Yeah, there's risk in owning a business, and it is by no means a sure thing, but it's quite different than gambling in Las Vegas.

Gambling on stock prices by trading rather than gambling on the long term performance of a company by investing are two different things.

Charlie Allen

 

[dive_gorilla]

My buddy and I were wondering how the economy was going to affect us as far as students go. Here in Korea, our students consist of soldiers and english teachers from the States and Canada. We decided that we probably wouldn't get very many customers next year. Not that we had many (we only get about 8-10 in summer) and trips to the Philippines or Thailand would be reduced. But maybe local diving and advanced certifications will stay the same or increase. After reading the replies to this question, I think we are right.

A fill here costs around $30 depending on the exchange rate. Nitrox is becoming widely available but it's about $40. People dive as they can afford it. Most come to get out of town for a day and relax. In this economy, we all need a diversion.


My worst day of diving was still better than my best day of working

 

[Dtaine]

I've increased my diving during the economic slowdown and the failures of our financial institutions. My personal assets are in bonds that have a set interest rate - right now outperforming the current bond market by a good 2%, and everything I have is insured by the FDIC. I'm even considering making some buys in the stock market given its current oversold situation, so long as our governments get smart about what they decide to do (unlikely, given what they've done so far). I am worried about inflationary pressures as the market stabilizes, because both the interest rate cut and the rescue package require increasing the amount of dollars in the market.

One of the problems right now is that the market is drastically affected by the current actions of the federal reserve and treasury. Investment planning requires forecasting the market, if you're anticipating government action, but aren't sure what that action will be, it makes long-term investment more difficult. No one's sure about which banks the government's considering taking shares in, or which ones have more bad debt tied to housing, although the picture is becoming clearer. This is a large reason the market is so volatile.

I have no doubt that the market's problems will have an effect on my diving at some point, whether next week or next year. What I do know is if people are smart about their personal finances they should be able to minimize losses and/or profit from all of this.