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Hi Larry, I think (for what it's worth as a layperson/diver) that all of the concerns you raise are valid ones. A couple of comments in reply:

-- I don't think that Clear-Ease is anything like a proprietary formula that requires you to go to Dr. Grossan's company to obtain. One can buy bromelain and papain tablets in any health food store. I gather that Dr. Grossan's main contribution was to suggest the efficacy of absorption through the tissues of the mouth rather than via the digestive tract. Re the dates in his bibliography, I'd volunteer the comment that from having met him he's getting on in years, and so the bibliography may reflect the main era when he was working on this (1970s-'80s). Having said all that, though, I have add that after trying Clear-Ease extensively for my own sinus situation, its effect, if any, is too subtle for me to detect.

-- Re the use of a Water Pik for nasal lavage, Dr. Grossan (and others) sell attachments designed for this purpose. He makes it clear that you should definitely not try to do this with the standard attachment that comes with the off-the-shelf Water Pik. His advocacy of the procedure is based in part on the idea that the device's pulsation rate corresponds to the vibrational rate of nasal cilia. I'll be honest and say that I find this concept farfetched. Based on my own experience with it, the device does seem to get water farther back into the sinuses than other nasal lavage methods (spray bottles, neti pots, etc). But I think you probably run the risk of irritating tissues by excessive pressure if you don't set the device appropriately. I still use it occasionally (with the Water Pik on a very low setting), but I tend to rely more on spray bottles and a neti pot to get water through my sinuses. All of my doctors and ENTs endorse the basic notion of this for sinus health.

-- On the general topic of treatments from the health-food store, I try as a layperson to exercise judgment. I'm well-aware that "natural" isn't necessarily better, and health-store supplements can do bad things to you. On the other hand, I also note that my family practitioner with a fairly conservative HMO now recommends a few health-food-store-type supplements that I don't think he would have five years ago. So I don't take the mere fact that a self-treatment or product is from the natural or herbal world as either a ringing endorsement or damning fact. As a health consumer I try to stay neutral, gather information extensively and experiment very cautiously.

One of the challenges in trying and evaluating various self-treatments for sinus issues is that, among the many prescription and non-prescription treatments I rattled off, the effects of the great majority of them have been very subtle in my case. Since I only dive every few weeks and only encounter symptoms when I dive, it's hard to do a full-up empirical test to really determine what works and what doesn't.

At any rate, as I mentioned at the outset I do understand all of your concerns. I especially appreciate your mention of the fact that the fruit enzymes are close to meat tenderizer. Gives me pause in thinking about using up the rest of the bottle I have on hand! ;-)
 
I did a little search on the internet for Dr Grossman and here is a link http://www.ent-consult.com/

His site appears rather straight forward. The good news is he is neither trying to enlarge either male or female appendages.

On the otherhand here is some of my usual mail.

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I REALLY HAVE A HIGH SUSPICION LEVEL WHEN CURES OR PROCLAIMED CURES APPEAR ON THE WEB. WOULD YOU RUN OUT AND CONTACT THE ABOVE SITE FOR IMPOTENCE, WOMEN'S PROBLEMS, HEARTBURN, MIGRAINES...I WOULDN'T EITHER.

Dr Grossman actually appears to have resonable credentials. But, so do I. I wrote them!!!

Please don't take this in the wrong spirit. You have posted many times on the board and it often is out of frustration about a medical problem you are having. To make matters worse, you are not getting relief--especially from the *&%$(& HMO you seem to have to go to. I personally think that the advice with all the disclaimers we must add AND without any expectation of remuneration has been better advice than some of the wacko stuff you have told us about...NO YOU ARE NOT WACKO. I do think that proteolytic enzymes sucked on, not swallowed (is that James Bond?---oh shaken, not stirred), waterpick up the nose, etc, as SELF treatment is probably NOT wise. If a physician want's to use a fire hose (on low pressure of course) and really give you a clean out to remember, at least you have someone to come after. Would you let, little old me, a dentist, aim a water pic up your nose for the heck of it....not on your life!

My own impression of you is that you are intelligent, would like to do things that are "natural" and are willing to search for an answer. There is nothing wrong with this except in the search, you are going to run across praticioners that are less than ethical. NO, I am not calling Dr. Grossman unethical. He may, in fact be the cat's meow. I just want you to be careful.

If you wanted advice from me...and believe me, you don't. What you need is a lot of fluids--especially Jewish Chicken Soup (Matzo balls are optional), guaifenesin and possibly have some allergy testing done to see if what plugs you up is something that can be desensitized. You are still gonna have some bad days.

I think the endless searching on the net and with doctors is costing a bundle and getting you both confused and achieving few results.

I want you to know that I feel like your friend though we have never met. Don't take anything negative I may have said about you and think that I'm saying you're being stupid.
Over the years, I have met patients...all doctors meet patients who manage to have so many questions that they never really get to he heart of the problem. Both sides become frustrated.

I wish you success in your quest for a solution. Now a question for you what is the quickest way to get over a broken neck? I fell out of a tree last week. If I type anymore my fingers are going to fall off. BTW, I'm fine, no paralysis and just a couple of sore broken ribs.

So next time you can't clear your ears, think of me...I can't dive for at least 3 months!!!!

Stay wet. Regards.

Larry Stein

No disclaimer...please do not take any of the preceeding information as being accurate...well chicken soup is good!=-)
 
bluebanded goby once bubbled...

-- On the general topic of treatments from the health-food store, I try as a layperson to exercise judgment. I'm well-aware that "natural" isn't necessarily better, and health-store supplements can do bad things to you.

Yes, and so can many many prescription drugs. Just ask people with prostate problems for example, or heart arrythmias.

IMO one has to be extremely careful and get as much information as possible. You can no more trust your doctor than you can trust your naturopath. In the end they are nothing more than highly paid professionals. Ask, study, understand, and then make a decision. You are responbsible for your own health...unfortunately.

If you have sinus and congestion problems I suggest you research Vitamin C. In high doses it has an antihistaminic effect and seems to be remarkably safe. It will also help if your problems are due to allergies.

According to some research that I did any kind of medicated nasal spray basically relies on some form of steroid, which will in the long run weaken the mucous membranes, causing them to be more prone to infections...in other words, you are helping the immediate problem, but long term you are making it worse.

Some other "medicines" that may help with mucous are beta carotine and N-Acetyl Cysteine.

If you do take any of these, I would also recommend taking a basic multi vitamin pill to "back up" all the other stuff. Some supplements can cause deficiencies in other areas.

Good luck, and do your own research.

BTW, my favorite example of BS "all natural" products are the decongestant teas. If you read the label you realize that they contain plant extracts that are basically the same as sudafed! Might as well just take a sudafed, but don't. Sudafed has been implicated in some serious health problems lately, and what's worse it may predispose you to oxygen toxicity hits...these are usually fatal under water.

Again, do your own research...sorry this got to be so long.
 
Amen
 
Laurence Stein DDS once bubbled...
"Now a question for you what is the quickest way to get over a broken neck? I fell out of a tree last week. If I type anymore my fingers are going to fall off. BTW, I'm fine, no paralysis and just a couple of sore broken ribs.

So next time you can't clear your ears, think of me...I can't dive for at least 3 months!!!!"


OUCH! Hope the bones are on the mend, and that you can get back to diving soon ToothDoc.

I still appreciate advice you gave me on diving after gum surgery a couple of years back, after I e-mailed the Scuba Doc. Good advice, with minimal disclaimers (hey I'm British, it's practically impossible to sue medical practitioners here anyway), and no remuneration whatsoever. Can't complain about that!

Clootie (previously aka Blogette2001)
 
I remember. Still can't believe a person would wait for months for surgery for what is usually an acute problem.

I'm healing pretty well. All appendages still work!

Perhaps you, as a Brit, can explain the rather odd, colorful, bunch of nick names and screen names that seem to come from the other side of the pond? Does everyone go to the same pub, get soused and then get stuck with a name? I have to admit it is colorful.

Glad your surgery turned out OK...er...it think.

Keep in touch.

Just raise a Guinness for the toothdoc--in case I can't in the future:)

Regards,


Larry Stein
 
Dr. Stein writes:

"Now a question for you what is the quickest way to get over a broken neck? I fell out of a tree last week. If I type anymore my fingers are going to fall off. BTW, I'm fine, no paralysis and just a couple of sore broken ribs."

Ouch! Sorry to hear about that. If it helps in the slightest, it reminds me a little of an experience I had once at the *&%$(& HMO I patronize (I go there not because anyone is holding a gun to my head, but my wife finds it suits her needs better than an 80/20 plan).

The experience was this. Last year I managed to step in bare feet on a very small sliver of glass that got lodged in my foot. I couldn't get it out with tweezers, and realized I'd need to seek professional help to get it removed. My regular family physician was out that day, so I got a lady M.D. who was sort of a clinic gypsy (just there covering for people occasionally). She looked in my folder, and burst out laughing.

"I'm sorry to laugh in front of you," she said, "but I just find this very funny. The very first entry in your chart is about how a brick fell on your head in your backyard once. For some reason I just find that very funny."

The brick wasn't as painful, I'm sure, as your broken ribs. But it did put me in mind of it as one of those "sh-- happens" things that take place out in the yard.

Anyway, not to worry, I wasn't taking any of your comments about the sinus self-treatments as criticism -- I always learn something new when I visit here. Hope you mend soon from the fall.
 
A clinic gypsy! What a perfect name for some of the HMO doc's. You can't find em when you need em and somehow managed care seem to be "managed to get your $$ eventhough you thought is was less costly!

What a hoot!

Larry

Apologies to any clinic gypsies who might be reading this.
 
You're thinking of a different Brit, I think

I was in Japan at the time of my op, which didn't go too great (bone graft, failed, section of gum sloughed off, cue incredible agony). But it's much better now.

You're probably thinking of someone relying on our wonderful national health system, limited though it is for dentistry. The down sides are occasional long waits and limited choice, but the plus is it's cheapish or free - if I need a filling replaced I can choose NHS amalgam for $18, or go private & get white enamel for $75.

As to nicknames - alcohol you've identified as a contributing factor, but I think school and the naturally inventive cruelty of kids is responsible for a lot of them. My brother was affectionately stuck with Musty for many years courtesy of his old Boy Scouts friends, which I'm reliably informed (by him) was a bastardised abbreviation of Mastermind.

My own is a shortened form of a Yahoo name I once had - clootiedumpling, which refers back to my ethnic origins, basic body shape, and sweet but spicy nature!

Clootie - having a Guiness for you :coke:

PS - surely you mean colourful :D
 
You contacted me through Scubadoc, not scubaboard? If so I remember but with Scubaboard, the thread can go on till eveyone's fingers fall off!

I had one Brit who had to put off dental surgery for an infection (we're talking months here) because that's the way the NHS works. Most of my patients would have died by then or gone elsewhere.

Of course, how could I make the grammatical mistake with colourful with people who drive on the "wrong side of the road"! Then again we use gas or gasoline, and our cars have hoods and trunks:D

Regards,

Larry Stein
 
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