Tuned to Freeflow?

[cerich]

I apologize if that's what it sounded like, but that was not even remotely it.


Likely a grain of sand caught in the clearance between the botton and the regulator face. (I was shore diving in Bonaire.) Hopefully not a common problem.

I will assume you were not implying I'm an idiot. I know what a freeflow is and how to stop it.


Bob

that is also very possible, and no, not at all. i didn't know your level of experience and people that haven't had a reg that freeflows like that before (and most do not, scubapro is famous for it) are often taken aback by it.

 

[CaveMD]

IME with similar regs (assuming that there's no damage to the orifice, the LP seat, or the poppet spring and the IP has a reasonable setting), this issue can be very easily addressed by lowering the lever height. This is done by removing the second stage from the reg hose to access the crown orifice. I'm not sure whether orifice adjustment requires a hex wrench or a flathead screwdriver since I haven't taken one apart and no freely downloadable parts diagram/technician manual exists. With similar regs, turning the crown orifice clockwise lowers the lever height whereas turning it counterclockwise raises the lever height.

Begin the tuning process with the inhalation adjustment knob fully open (turned out counterclockwise) and the Venturi switch in the (+) position...then gradually lower the lever height until the freeflow just barely stops. Without an inline adjuster, this will entail several cycles of connecting the second stage finger-tight, pressurizing, assessing absence/presence of freeflow, depressurizing, disconnecting reg, adjusting orifice, connecting reg, etc. Once you have the lever height set, do some test purges and test breathes. With the Venturi lever set to (+), hitting the purge button should set off a loud purge that stops when the Venturi lever is switched to (-). Subjective breathing should be fairly easy (or whatever you are comfortable with). Verify that the cracking pressure changes appropriately when turning the inhalation adjustment knob. In a couple of minutes, your second stage will be properly tuned.

With new regs or regs following an overhaul, it is fairly typical to have to detune them a little as the LP seat "takes a set." That's essentially what you're doing by turning in the adjustment knob 75%. IMO, I don't think that your second stage was really that far out of tune. If you follow the procedure I described above, it should be a straightforward fix. Good luck with it. Hopefully, as soon as he becomes aware of this thread, cerich will send you an official set of tuning instructions.

Did you copy and paste that from somewhere? If not, it probably will be copy and pasted quite a bit in the future lol. That is probably one of the more straight forward and simple explanations I've ever read. Only things it's missing is pictures for the illiterate divers.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Did you copy and paste that from somewhere? If not, it probably will be copy and pasted quite a bit in the future lol. That is probably one of the more straight forward and simple explanations I've ever read. Only things it's missing is pictures for the illiterate divers.

Off the top of my head. Seriously. It's exactly how I tune my Apeks regs. The only thing I left out was how to set the initial position of the lever height prior to tuning (about even with the lip of the second stage body).

I don't have any tech certifications or reg servicing training either. I just like understanding how things work, and I don't mind a little self-motivated reading. It appears that my academic "cross-training" has been good for something.

(FWIW, if I had cut-and-pasted that text, I would have included a proper citation.)

 

[foglesre]

Having read Regulator Savvy and the tuning descriptions above, the only thing that I am unclear on is whether the HOG second stage is, in the words of Regulator Savvy, "Dual Adjustment Demand Valve with Diver Controlled Inhalation Effort"? I have seen the descriptions above about backing out the "Diver Controlled" adjustment all the way and adjusting the orifice position for lever height. But is there additionally an adjustment for setting spring tension for the backed out diver controlled setting?

Bob

 

[redacted]

Having read Regulator Savvy and the tuning descriptions above, the only thing that I am unclear on is whether the HOG second stage is, in the words of Regulator Savvy, "Dual Adjustment Demand Valve with Diver Controlled Inhalation Effort"? I have seen the descriptions above about backing out the "Diver Controlled" adjustment all the way and adjusting the orifice position for lever height. But is there additionally an adjustment for setting spring tension for the backed out diver controlled setting?

Bob

Remove the LP hose and that should reveal the adjustable orifice. Then, holding the purge button down (so the soft seat is not in contact with the orifice), turn the orifice clockwise (screw it in) about 30 degrees. That small adjustment should stop the freeflow problem and still leave you a good performing 2nd.

Unfortunately, such regulator terminology is not always consistent. I could not find that specific term in a quick look at my copy of Reg Savvy, so while I believe that term describes what I call a balanced adjustable barrel poppet design, I am not absolutely sure. If you think it is critical, give me a chapter and majhor paragraph reference.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Having read Regulator Savvy and the tuning descriptions above, the only thing that I am unclear on is whether the HOG second stage is, in the words of Regulator Savvy, "Dual Adjustment Demand Valve with Diver Controlled Inhalation Effort"? I have seen the descriptions above about backing out the "Diver Controlled" adjustment all the way and adjusting the orifice position for lever height. But is there additionally an adjustment for setting spring tension for the backed out diver controlled setting?

Bob

We should probably wait for cerich to weigh in on this since he really knows what he's talking about.

On similar regs, e.g., Apeks second stages, there's a retaining pin that secures the inhalation adjustment knob to the valve spindle. The initial position of the inhalation knob is set by backing out the knob just enough to provide sufficient tension to hold the pin in. I apologize if this sounds unclear. I can't think of a better way to describe it. If you're curious, you could download an Apeks second stage technician manual to see what I'm talking about.

I'm willing to bet that the initial position of the inhalation knob is set properly. So long as you turn it out completely (you'll know how far to go by feel) prior to tuning, you should be able to set up everything properly. Following awap's instructions is probably all you need to do. The only thing I might add to his very good advice is to use two wrenches to tighten up the connection between LP hose and second stage retaining nut (once tuning has been completed). It's possible to crack the second stage plastic body if this is performed incorrectly with one wrench. Good luck.

 

[CaveMD]

I dove them today and hey worked great, I did decide to tune the necklace one down a little though since it's used primarily only when there is a problem and I would prefer it not free flow when the scooter takes off too fast etc. The 7ft reg I barely touched though and it worked great. These regulators are exceptional to say the absolute least, I'm about to order another set of them to rig as a main and duplicate 2nd stage for an octo to give my brother for his birthday.

 

[cerich]

We should probably wait for cerich to weigh in on this since he really knows what he's talking about.

On similar regs, e.g., Apeks second stages, there's a retaining pin that secures the inhalation adjustment knob to the valve spindle. The initial position of the inhalation knob is set by backing out the knob just enough to provide sufficient tension to hold the pin in. I apologize if this sounds unclear. I can't think of a better way to describe it. If you're curious, you could download an Apeks second stage technician manual to see what I'm talking about.

I'm willing to bet that the initial position of the inhalation knob is set properly. So long as you turn it out completely (you'll know how far to go by feel) prior to tuning, you should be able to set up everything properly. Following awap's instructions is probably all you need to do. The only thing I might add to his very good advice is to use two wrenches to tighten up the connection between LP hose and second stage retaining nut (once tuning has been completed). It's possible to crack the second stage plastic body if this is performed incorrectly with one wrench. Good luck.

yes, that'll work.

 

[Fishpie]

To answer the original question.....the 3 2nd stages I bought last November were all tuned a little too conservatively for my taste. I like to tune my personal regs so that they will slightly ff with the knob fully screwed out and all 3 took between 1/4 and a 1/2 turn of the orifice to achieve this.

 

[TechBlue]

To answer the original question.....the 3 2nd stages I bought last November were all tuned a little too conservatively for my taste. I like to tune my personal regs so that they will slightly ff with the knob fully screwed out and all 3 took between 1/4 and a 1/2 turn of the orifice to achieve this.

You can't expect a 2nd stage to match any and all 1st stages exactly out of the box and as you said you have a personal preference on how they are tuned, as you also pointed out it is a simple process to tweak them.